A closer look at Harrison Barnes

[AZ_]

Yeah, both guys are good. Hopefully the Cavs get 1 of them if they go the "scorer" route.

Agreed, got to get one of those two guys.

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

And these incremental differences mean what come October when both of these guys are in the NBA?

Pretty much nothing.

It's a universal opinion that Barnes and Beal are pretty much both shooters who are at the top of this class. The incremental differences in their shooting percentages in college is really what's separating them talent wise?

Eh, not sure I buy that.

That, along with the fact that Beal still looks like a fluid athlete when a basketball is put in his hands compared to Barnes who looks like a robot as soon as he attempts to dribble the ball.


I am not a big stats guy. I'll be the first to say that stats lie very often. But I do think it says something that Beal put up better #'s even though he was in a far worse situation than Barnes.

 

[AZ_]

Amazing he was able to lead one team of four top 20 picks in scoring despite being an overrated shooter with the coordination of George Muresan.

 

[polska2211]

That, along with the fact that Beal still looks like a fluid athlete when a basketball is put in his hands compared to Barnes who looks like a robot as soon as he attempts to dribble the ball.


I am not a big stats guy. I'll be the first to say that stats lie very often. But I do think it says something that Beal put up better #'s even though he was in a far worse situation than Barnes.

you really think that Barnes' step-back J looks robotic? Its a thing of beauty.

 

[chrisrich91]

Barnes most likely looked and shot so bad off the dribble because of lack of confidence in his ball handling ability. The truth is that Barnes' dribbling skills might be easier to improve than MKG's shot mechanics. If Barnes could get his ball handling up to an average level, which is totally plausible and probably likely, he would most likely be a stud scoring threat in the league. Add in the fact that his ball handling skills might look better in the more openly spaced NBA even without practice...he's a better prospect than a lot are giving him credit for.

His combine measurements showed me one thing. He's an athlete who is not able to use his athletic ability fully on the court. Why is that? Because he doesn't have confidence in his ability to handle the ball. One of the reports from private workouts stated that teams were impressed by Barnes' improvement with his ball handling. He's being undervalued and I think he would average 13-15 points per game right out of the gate as a rookie on this team, and could be a consistent 20+ PPG scorer over his career.

 

[polska2211]

I think Barnes will thrive in the NBA because of all the space on the floor. He already has an incredible midrange jumper, great postup game, and hes only going to get bigger/stronger which will help with finishing at the rim.

 

[Alec]

I've been gone a week. When did the Barnes pick rationalization start?

 

[ajz20]

The board has gone from please trade up for MKG the night of the lottery to "Maybe that Barnes guy is better" to "We must have Beal, or bust' All this with no game being played. There was about a 4 hour period, where the Drummond supporters made a charge, and for about five minutes the board wanted TROb.

I've been gone a week. When did the Barnes pick rationalization start?

 

[chrisrich91]

The board has gone from please trade up for MKG the night of the lottery to "Maybe that Barnes guy is better" to "We must have Beal, or bust' All this with no game being played. There was about a 4 hour period, where the Drummond supporters made a charge, and for about five minutes the board wanted TROb.

Thankfully ajz20 has been consistent in his belief that we should draft Chad Ford at #4 and his latest mock at #24.

 

[The Process God]

The board has gone from please trade up for MKG the night of the lottery to "Maybe that Barnes guy is better" to "We must have Beal, or bust' All this with no game being played. There was about a 4 hour period, where the Drummond supporters made a charge, and for about five minutes the board wanted TROb.

I don't know about everybody else, but I've personally never been a fan of trading up for MKG. I'm okay with drafting Barnes as a player, but my hurt Cleveland side of me is worried that Barnes will be too concerned about money. I'm liking Beal a lot because he ended up being larger than anyone thought he was, more athletic than anyone thought he was, and his character is extremely high. His shooting is also looking like it's going to be better than it was in college, and he showed that in his tournament play.

 

[kovanovich]

The board has gone from please trade up for MKG the night of the lottery to "Maybe that Barnes guy is better" to "We must have Beal, or bust' All this with no game being played. There was about a 4 hour period, where the Drummond supporters made a charge, and for about five minutes the board wanted TROb.

Seriously, it seems it started with Chad Ford moving Barnes to #4 early in the day (June 25th). Givony has updated his mock repeatedly today and still (as of 1135 PM EST) he still has MKG going to Cleveland at 4 and Barnes to the Kings at 5.

 

[metalman213]

42 FG%
34 3P%
72 FT%

These whopping %'s came while playing with 2 big men that will be drafted top 15 and the best PG in the nation last season..... All while having a size advantage against mostly everyone he played against.

Not impressed.


Beal shot 2% higher from the field (same from 3), and 5% better from the line all while being a freshman playing against guys bigger than him (played SF most of the year) and having no legit NBA talent surrounding him as well as two ball-hogging chuckers playing PG and SG.

you are using numbers from his freshman year

 

[Gimme Some Mo]

you are using numbers from his freshman year

You are correct. Honest mistake.

His sophomore numbers were:

44 FG%
36 3P%
72 FT% (75% in his Freshman year - not sure how I screwed this up)

Numbers do look a little better, but they still don't scream efficient, especially when you consider all the advantages he had.


Beyond the numbers.... the only reason I dislike Barnes is because of his inability to create shots for himself and others. The guy didn't get any easy buckets in the NCAA. How is he going to get them in the NBA? He CANNOT dribble. It is simple as that for me. I just don't want my #4 overall pick SF shooting nothing but low % pull up jumpers and spot up jumpers.

I just can't get on board with it. I see him being a very inefficient scorer at the next level due to never getting in the paint.


As for improving dribbling.... I think that is a lot easier said that done. Dribbling has a lot to do with god-given gifts such as instincts, coordination, and fluidity. I've been waiting for Boobie Gibson to learn how to dribble for 5+ years now.

 

[metalman213]

You are correct. Honest mistake.

His sophomore numbers were:

44 FG%
36 3P%
72 FT% (75% in his Freshman year - not sure how I screwed this up)

Numbers do look a little better, but they still don't scream efficient, especially when you consider all the advantages he had.


Beyond the numbers.... the only reason I dislike Barnes is because of his inability to create shots for himself and others. The guy didn't get any easy buckets in the NCAA. How is he going to get them in the NBA? He CANNOT dribble. It is simple as that for me. I just don't want my #4 overall pick SF shooting nothing but low % pull up jumpers and spot up jumpers.

I just can't get on board with it. I see him being a very inefficient scorer at the next level due to never getting in the paint.


As for improving dribbling.... I think that is a lot easier said that done. Dribbling has a lot to do with god-given gifts such as instincts, coordination, and fluidity. I've been waiting for Boobie Gibson to learn how to dribble for 5+ years now.

He is good at shooting pull up shots and shooting off the dribble. Part of the reason he doesnt get to the basket as much as he should, imo, is that he has a lot of confidence in his ability to create space and knock down those shots.

Jeremy Lamb has better measurables than Bradley Beal. He shot 47.8% from the field, 60% for 2 pointers. His 3 point % is a fraction smaller than Beal's. Does that make him the better prospect?

 

[The_Anti_Stern]

You are correct. Honest mistake.

His sophomore numbers were:

44 FG%
36 3P%
72 FT% (75% in his Freshman year - not sure how I screwed this up)

Numbers do look a little better, but they still don't scream efficient, especially when you consider all the advantages he had.


Beyond the numbers.... the only reason I dislike Barnes is because of his inability to create shots for himself and others. The guy didn't get any easy buckets in the NCAA. How is he going to get them in the NBA? He CANNOT dribble. It is simple as that for me. I just don't want my #4 overall pick SF shooting nothing but low % pull up jumpers and spot up jumpers.

I just can't get on board with it. I see him being a very inefficient scorer at the next level due to never getting in the paint.


As for improving dribbling.... I think that is a lot easier said that done. Dribbling has a lot to do with god-given gifts such as instincts, coordination, and fluidity. I've been waiting for Boobie Gibson to learn how to dribble for 5+ years now.

Barnes is not a prospect to draft for what skills he could develop. He'll be a reasonable wing who can't be expected to create his own shot on a consistent basis at the elite level. Offensive scheming will have to create a large portion of his shots through off-the-ball movement, especially if a reliable scorer isn't on the floor with him. He'll be a respectable NBA player but probably won't meet the value of the fourth overall pick in the draft.