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Building a Gaming PC

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I did quite a bit of testing as to why my FPS was different then the nearly identical PC, even switching the cards to the other PC etc. Had a few diagnostic programs running on both PC's, and while his CPU was only running at 50-70% on all 4 cores load at most during stressful times, mine was running at 80-100%. So either it was bad drivers, or the CPU was bottlenecking it. Researched a couple articles off of tomshardware and it all pointed to my CPU being the bottleneck.

Again, I'm a different gamer in that I play a lot of old games, which AMD notably doesn't support that well. But AMD hasn't been good to me over the last 3-4 years so I personally would not recommend them.

Your problem is not your CPU. You should also NOT be hitting 100% utilization over 4 cores in BF3 for your CPU. I would test a clean installation and be sure.

Also, you can generally expect AMD CPUs to have high CPU utilization for a given task than Intel CPUs as they do less work per clock cycle over a smaller window of availability. Thus, mathematically, non-trivial tasks will generate a higher load per unit of time measured.

What this means in general is that the 'idle' task of the thread switcher has lower availability on an AMD system under load than on an Intel system, and this is predominantly due to the nature of the architectures as well as Intel's Hyperthreading CPU feature which the idle-task will count as an ((n+1)*core_count) increase in available threads of execution.

This means that one cannot compare CPU load metrics between hyperthreading CPUs and non-hyperthreading CPUs. This is a very important distinction.

The architecture benefit afforded to AMD by not using such a complex pipeline allows them to compensate for reduced work/cycle by having faster clocks and more (albeit less complex) cores.

But the tl;dr of it is CPU% is not an apples-to-apples comparison of workload across architectures.

Lastly, whoever told you BF3 was CPU bound lied to you.

BF3 uses 4 main threads of execution with several async threads firing from those various threads, however the overall performance requirements results in a nominal load on most quad-core CPUs.

To the point of CPU-bottleneck, it's simply NOT the case with respect to graphics output.

CPU_02.png


As you can see, on older architecture with only 2 cores, a loss of 8 Max FPS is noticed but the minimum frame rate drops to the mid-40s which would become a noticeable performance issue. This is due to an obvious CPU bottleneck (lack of available threads of execution), but is only evident in dual-core configurations.

With maximum settings (minus MSAA), the game performs almost equally on all quad-core or better architectures (with a few dual-cores tossed in). When MSAA is turned on, you would get a noticeable difference in performance, but this is a GPU issue only as MSAA is a shader process.

Therefore, again, your configurations simply aren't likely to be identical. Either you have different drivers, different operating systems, or there are other background programs running that are affecting your performance. But having an AMD CPU is not driving down your Battlefield 3 FPS.
 
That leads to my next stupid question: cooling.

Do I need to purchase a separate cooling system?

Don't worry too much about this until it presents itself. You can also use very quiet high-end fans.

Liquid cooling seems to be a buzzword everywhere I look. Is liquid cooling reliable? Is it just another 'lego' that gets plugged in? Do cases normally come with cooling systems already installed?

Don't bother with this for now.. Maybe on the next build, but honestly, I've never seen the need for liquid cooling in a gaming rig.
 
Don't bother with this for now.. Maybe on the next build, but honestly, I've never seen the need for liquid cooling in a gaming rig.

My main logic for using it was how cheap a solid liquid cooling system is these days. I also read that the fan that came with my CPU was crappy, loud, and not ideal for dealing with the heat the CPU generates, so I was going to be buying a different fan anyway. Might as well spend a bit more and keep it even cooler.
 
My main logic for using it was how cheap a solid liquid cooling system is these days. I also read that the fan that came with my CPU was crappy, loud, and not ideal for dealing with the heat the CPU generates, so I was going to be buying a different fan anyway. Might as well spend a bit more and keep it even cooler.

Noctua fans are amazing.. I use them in my server builds and they are so quiet you could hear a rat piss on cotton. They keep my BSEL modded CPUs cool running at less than 1000 RPM.

I also use an insulated Cooler Master COSMOS 1000 case (http://www.coolermaster.com/case/full-tower/cosmos-1000/). It has sound-dampening pads. It is almost completely silent even on full-load.
 
Is there anything you dont do/know about, Gour?
 
Per Gour's advice, I'm gonna parse through video cards first in this prospective build. I've stumbled upon one that has strong reviews and seems to meet a lot of requirements while staying under $300. Doesn't have a built in sound card. Is that a big deal? Give me thoughts on this guy:

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-SuperClo...e=UTF8&qid=1397063066&sr=8-1&keywords=gtx+760

Did you find that card via pcpartpicker or just browsing thru amazon? I ask because you should REALLY be using PCPP to make sure youre getting a good price
 
Did you find that card via pcpartpicker or just browsing thru amazon? I ask because you should REALLY be using PCPP to make sure youre getting a good price

PCPP linked me to an article that linked me to the amazon page
 
Cool cool..i dont know much about nvidia cards, i just didnt want you possibly getting screwed on a deal is all
 
Is there anything you dont do/know about, Gour?

No.





:chuckles:

I know quite a bit about math/physics because those are my advanced fields of study. Computers because that's been my life since I was 7 and is now my livelihood. Politics because I worked in politics ranging from volunteering to interning to working as paid staff.

That's really it though.

I don't know much about biochemistry or advanced chemistry at all. I do know quite a bit of history, but only American and Western civilization, not enough Asiatic or Sub-Saharan African history (other than Apartheid South Africa). My knowledge of mainland European literature and poetry is sorely lacking unfortunately, and for that I am ashamed.

I spend a great deal of time reading anything I can get my hands on that pertains to technology, mathematics, physics, or American/European history. I always have, dunno why.

I don't read enough (any) fiction anymore.

But reading medical research papers gives me a fucking headache... Also, I have no artistic capability at all. I dress myself using logic, not true taste. I cook using academic concepts of flavor, rather than just having a feel for it. I play the piano by memory alone, but cannot improvise. So, hope that answers your question.
 
You could have saved yourself the five minutes it took to type that and just said that you're a nerd.
 
look at that BF3 CPU performance chart, my little $78 CPU performing just as well as an i7 :thumbup:
 
Per Gour's advice, I'm gonna parse through video cards first in this prospective build. I've stumbled upon one that has strong reviews and seems to meet a lot of requirements while staying under $300. Doesn't have a built in sound card. Is that a big deal? Give me thoughts on this guy:

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-SuperClo...e=UTF8&qid=1397063066&sr=8-1&keywords=gtx+760

If you're going to go the Nvidia SLI route, you'll need a good motherboard with multiple discreet PCIe lanes (not just two slots). Also, spend the extra money and get the 770 and not the 760. You're better in the long-run.

If you decide to upgrade to SLI with 2x770's there is no game out today that you could not run at 60 FPS+ on highest settings at 1440p. Simply put, you'd be good to go for a very long time.
 
Their was fresh installs on both of our PC's. I had actually just put both of them together that weekend, one of the further reasons this was maddening. I've since replaced that rig, so I can't really test much more on it, and BF3 was the only high-end game I played on that PC.

I thought it was a driver issue, but again, switched out video cards (identical make/model) with my friends and had the same issues. The only difference between our PC's were the mobo/processor/ram. Unless maybe it was a power issue? Still to this day I don't understand what was going on.. I've read all the benchmarks(including the one you posted) and none of it made sense to me.

The bad driver support with OpenGL games was really the turning point for me with AMD, which most people wouldn't care about. Still don't understand having more than 4 cores though, which seems to be a staple of AMD's line right now.

Just an additional note, Nvidia is getting ready to release their new line of cards sometime in the next few months.. might be something to think about.
 
Their was fresh installs on both of our PC's. I had actually just put both of them together that weekend, one of the further reasons this was maddening. I've since replaced that rig, so I can't really test much more on it, and BF3 was the only high-end game I played on that PC.

I thought it was a driver issue, but again, switched out video cards (identical make/model) with my friends and had the same issues. The only difference between our PC's were the mobo/processor/ram. Unless maybe it was a power issue? Still to this day I don't understand what was going on.. I've read all the benchmarks(including the one you posted) and none of it made sense to me.

Could have been the motherboards. The board with lower FPS may have had an inferior PCIe bridge (many claim x16 but are really only x8 with an x16 port). Also may not have fully supported PCIe 2.0. There could be many issues involved, but AMD vs Intel/Nvidia likely wasn't one of them (unless again, MSAA was involved).

The bad driver support with OpenGL games was really the turning point for me with AMD, which most people wouldn't care about.

Can't argue with you there. Catalyst support for OpenGL should be better on both Windows and Linux.

Still don't understand having more than 4 cores though, which seems to be a staple of AMD's line right now.

AMD CPUs are more performant with more than 4 cores. This is what makes the i7 more performant that the i5, having 4 cores with hyperthreading to give 8 threads of execution. AMD competes with this model by reducing "cores" into general processing "modules" and increasing their count. More powerful than an Intel execution thread, but less powerful than a true processor core. Both models will likely converge at some point in the near future (hyperthreading modules with SPUs on a general purpose APU).

AMD is really on the forefront of this technology although with inferior performance. This has historically been the case going back to the AMD Athlon, and Athlon 64 which pioneered the x86-64 architecture that we use today (which was invented by AMD).

As I said before, for serious work that requires a great amount of CPU, I wouldn't advise anyone to buy an AMD chip. But for gaming? It's simply not going to be a bottleneck for most games. Only a very select few that are massively CPU bound would have issues on a 4.5-5.0ghz octocore 64-bit processor. I would say those games are just poorly written in general.

Just an additional note, Nvidia is getting ready to release their new line of cards sometime in the next few months.. might be something to think about.

The reason Nvidia is the card to buy right now is due to the extreme demand for AMD cards right now, ranging from cryptocurrencies, consoles, and PC gamers; there's just not enough supply to meet the demand. Hence, we're looking at between 30%-60% markups on most cards with fluctuating MSRPs and retailers price gouging consumers. This means that Nvidia cards, which most users do not use for GPGPU functions, are giving you not only the best performance, but the best performance at multiple price points.

The supply of AMD cards has been ramped up however, and prices are expected to drop significantly in the coming months; thus AMD may regain the footing it had lost. I doubt they'll return to having the fastest single GPU card until at least next year though.

Personally, I agree with the OP, the card to buy right now is the Geforce GTX 770. It's got the most bang for your buck in the high-end market, and with SLI gives performance equivalent to the 3rd best 2xGPU configuration one could presently achieve.
 

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