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Cleveland Browns Quarterback Position

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Here are three quick reasons the spread doesn't completely work in the NFL. I wrote a longer more detailed explanation last year, I might have to dig it up:

1. Hit opportunities on the QB. In the spread, the QB is in space a lot. The pocket and pro style running game preserves a QB much better. At the Pro level, defenders can all deliver massive hits that only one or two college defenders per team can deliver. This is why Colt McCoy could run for 500 yards a season at Texas then looked like he was going to retire before age 27 as a Brown.

2. Formulaic and simple design of the spread. The spread calls for the QB to make a quick read on what the defense can give up in a certain formation and deliver the ball quickly. A good defense can bait the QB into the predictable play and jump the route. And that is why the Patriots won the Super Bowl.

3. Less control of the OC, more control in the QB's hands. In the spread, the QB makes more decisions because there is rarely a huddle. If you have a young QB, that is a lot of trust in a 24 year old. It also means you can't control the clock and give your defense a chance to recover. When NFL teams go to a hurry up offense, they can score. That has been the pattern as long as I can remember. There are costs to it as well. That is why in the NFL, teams pick their moments to hurry it up.
 
I agree with a lot of what Phills says above. Especially the part about Hoyer. Hoyer was taken out at the right time. The issue is that they didn't have a viable replacement in Johnny when the time came. You had poop (Hoyer) starting.. The issue is you had diarrhea (Manziel) waiting in the wings.

This all said, it's going to be a brave move for whoever in the Browns org. decides to allow a 1st round QB time to develop. We don't want to wait here and even a hint at that strategy will have the pitchforks, stakes and torches out.
 
Randolphkeys said:
Here are three quick reasons the spread doesn't completely work in the NFL. I wrote a longer more detailed explanation last year, I might have to dig it up:

1. Hit opportunities on the QB. In the spread, the QB is in space a lot. The pocket and pro style running game preserves a QB much better. At the Pro level, defenders can all deliver massive hits that only one or two college defenders per team can deliver. This is why Colt McCoy could run for 500 yards a season at Texas then looked like he was going to retire before age 27 as a Brown.

2. Formulaic and simple design of the spread. The spread calls for the QB to make a quick read on what the defense can give up in a certain formation and deliver the ball quickly. A good defense can bait the QB into the predictable play and jump the route. And that is why the Patriots won the Super Bowl.

3. Less control of the OC, more control in the QB's hands. In the spread, the QB makes more decisions because there is rarely a huddle. If you have a young QB, that is a lot of trust in a 24 year old. It also means you can't control the clock and give your defense a chance to recover. When NFL teams go to a hurry up offense, they can score. That has been the pattern as long as I can remember. There are costs to it as well. That is why in the NFL, teams pick their moments to hurry it up.
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Thanks for the write-up. All of that makes a lot of sense.

I wonder if the NFL will ever expand the rosters to try to compensate for teams using the spread more (extra QBs, more defenders to account for less rest due to hurry-up offenses)?

If this problem persists the NFL might need to abandon the model of having the NCAA be their unpaid minor league system because it certainly isn't helping them develop QBs.
 
spydy13 said:
Thanks for the write-up. All of that makes a lot of sense.

I wonder if the NFL will ever expand the rosters to try to compensate for teams using the spread more (extra QBs, more defenders to account for less rest due to hurry-up offenses)?

If this problem persists the NFL might need to abandon the model of having the NCAA be their unpaid minor league system because it certainly isn't helping them develop QBs.
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I fully agree on both possibilities. We might be going to an era of the NFL where teams are expecting to use 2-3 QBs a season, and it isn't a situation where the team isn't going anywhere. For now, I have a lot of trouble thinking of successful pro franchises who used a two QB system. Joe Gibbs was able to win with shaky QBs because he had the best offensive line in NFL history and some other HOFers. Ravens won with Dilfer because they had one of the best defenses in NFL history. Until we see more teams that doesn't rally around their QB to win pressure games, its an Alpha QB league.
 
There are ways around spread QB's failing. You can manufacture space at first, then slowly work in pro style in with the manufactured space.

Hell, the offense we ran last year would have been perfect for any spread QB who was worth it. We had a strong running game, a good pass protection O-line, and a really good tight end. And Manziel failed in spectacular fashion. You run that same offense with say, RG3 or even Mariota, and I think you have much more success.

The whole thing is massively overblown. While spread QBs do take a while, we've seen them develop in the NFL. And we've seen Pro-Style QB's fail too. So while I understand why some would like the NFL to embrace the spread, I'd rather just see them be better thinkers and better talent evaluators.
 
First of all, I think this is a very important conversation to have right now if you are a Browns fan. It's time to re-evaluate why the past few drafted QBs haven't developed and look for a plan that has a history of working. Its a conversation that should have been happening as soon as Haslam took over.

Amherstcavsfan said:
There are ways around spread QB's failing. You can manufacture space at first, then slowly work in pro style in with the manufactured space.
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I think the future of the NFL will be moving pockets. Here is a great quote I found from McCarthy in Green Bay on what they try to do with Rodgers to take advantage of his gifts while protecting him:

"He does a good job in the pocket transitioning out of the pocket," Green Bay coach Mike McCarthy said. "I mean the quarterback scramble drill is something that we believe in. We practice it from Day 1. The in-pocket training for the quarterback is detailed. The out-of-the-pocket training for the quarterback is detailed. The true art of it — and it's a great credit to Aaron — is the transition from the in-the-pocket training to out-of-pocket training. ... It's something that's part of our passing game, it's something that's coached, and he's exceptional at it."

The challenge for any spread QB coming into the pro game is learning to balance the safety the NFL rules provide in the pocket, and the potential for a big play that comes from briefly and safely leaving the pocket. And I do believe it isn't learned through experience on the field alone, just like learning to be a Bengal tiger trainer in Vegas isn't learned by experience alone. That is what I think Clayton is getting at.

Amherstcavsfan said:
Hell, the offense we ran last year would have been perfect for any spread QB who was worth it. We had a strong running game, a good pass protection O-line, and a really good tight end. And Manziel failed in spectacular fashion. You run that same offense with say, RG3 or even Mariota, and I think you have much more success.
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I don't know if this is an opinion anyone cares to read amidst all the optimism for the 2015 season, but let's keep any analysis of last year based in positives and negatives. Pass protection was strong until McDonald played center. J.J. Watt and Houston blew up the offensive line. The "really good tight end" missed 6 games and played so injured in a few others that he was used as a decoy. Add to that the strange collection of limited receivers, which are being completely overhauled this offseason for a reason. I'm still waiting to see what was really on Hoyer and what was on some increasingly terrible circumstances last season, and I think a few months of this upcoming season will make that narrative more clear.

Amherstcavsfan said:
The whole thing is massively overblown. While spread QBs do take a while, we've seen them develop in the NFL. And we've seen Pro-Style QB's fail too. So while I understand why some would like the NFL to embrace the spread, I'd rather just see them be better thinkers and better talent evaluators.
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The concern is that there are less and less pro style systems in the college game. The Browns answer this season is to bring in a veritable QB University of coaches and mentors. The "QB of the future" will have DeFilippo, a former QB coach in his ear about what to do. Roper, a former college passing game guru and OC in his ear. McConnell was considered the best private QB coach available and he will have his opinions. McCown and Thad Lewis are being brought in to play in emergencies, but primarily be mentors as well. Those are a lot of voices in a young QBs head, and who knows if they will all be saying the same thing in the same situations. I could see this being a "too many chiefs, only one Indian" situation. But, let's see how it plays out.
 
Could a three-way trade get Mariota to Philly?

On the surface, it seems impossible for the Eagles to get from No. 20 into the top five, if they remain interested in reuniting quarterback Marcus Mariota with coach Chip Kelly, the man who recruited Mariota to Oregon.

Three years ago, Washington gave up a total of three first-round picks and a second-round selection move up only four spots to get Robert Griffin III. A move from No. 20 to No. 5 (Washington), No. 4 (Oakland), or No. 3 (Jacksonville) would seemingly require too much.

But the Eagles have something else to add to the mix — something that Washington, Oakland, and Jacksonville won’t want or need: quarterback Sam Bradford.

Unless and until Bradford signs a new contract with the Eagles, he’s vulnerable to be traded again. Despite the public proclamations after Bradford arrived that Kelly is the only “chip” in town, rumors persist that Bradford could be a temporary member of the Eagles.

Meanwhile, the Browns have made it clear that the want Bradford, offering a first-round pick to the Rams for Bradford and reportedly/presumably offering a first-round pick to the Eagles the morning after he was shipped to Philly.

So with the Browns holding the No. 12 and No. 19 selections in the draft and the Eagles holding Bradford’s rights and pick No. 20, how about a trade that would send Bradford to Cleveland, Mariota to the Eagles, and a total of three first-round picks to someone in the top five?

For example: (1) the Browns get Bradford and Philly’s first-round pick in 2016; (2) the Eagles get Mariota; and (3) a team in the top five gets the No. 12, No. 19, and No. 20 pick in 2015.

Alternatively: (1) the Browns get Bradford and No. 20 in 2015 from Philly; (2) the Eagles get Mariota; and (3) a team in the top five gets the No. 12 and No. 19 in 2015, and Philly’s first-round pick in 2016.

Under either scenario, the Eagles may have to give up more to make it happen. Possibly, they may have to absorb Johnny Manziel and the bulk of his rookie contract — which may not be a problem for Philly, given that Kelly also recruited Manziel to attend Oregon. Regardless, it’s possible that, by sending Bradford to the Browns and getting Cleveland to throw the 12th and 19th picks into a three-way deal, Kelly could make the climb for Mariota without mortgaging the future.

In the end, Kelly may be able to pull it off simply by giving up the 20th pick this year, a first-round pick next year, and maybe another pick or two in 2015 or 2016.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/21/three-way-trade-could-get-mariota-to-philly/
 
THat is just hilarious...

I don't even know what to say I am so dumbfounded by that trade. God I hope they just stick to wanting to draft a QB in the 2nd/3rd/4th.

We need those 1st round picks, not for Sam "deer caught in headlights" Bradford.
 
How many times to they have to repeat Eagles and Mariota over and over again to make their dreams come true.

Pretty evident they aren't targeting Mariota at this point, but the media is relentless with this stuff already.

They've got to let it go at some point, right? Or will they still be creating stories about how Chip is going to trade for his draft rights after someone else takes him?
 
AZ_ said:
They've got to let it go at some point, right? Or will they still be creating stories about how Chip is going to trade for his draft rights after someone else takes him?
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That story will definitely be written. It feels like NFL people are telling folks that the Eagles intend to end up with Mariotta and the media is trying to fill in the "how" part. Either that, or people just love to speculate about the perceived unpredictability of Chip Kelly.
 
AZ_ said:
How many times to they have to repeat Eagles and Mariota over and over again to make their dreams come true.

Pretty evident they aren't targeting Mariota at this point, but the media is relentless with this stuff already.

They've got to let it go at some point, right? Or will they still be creating stories about how Chip is going to trade for his draft rights after someone else takes him?
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I would bet money that the media lets it go once Chip Kelly is out of the league/retires/fired.
 
So Florio bashed the Browns when he theorized we were the ones who offered a 1st round pick for Sam Bradford. However; now he's saying the Browns should trade the better of the 1st round picks (#12) plus trade down a slot from 19 to 20 in order to get Bradford without mentioning Bradford would need to sign a long term contract?

ok.
 
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