Dion Waiters Traded

[tn819]

Thought he was ok, but he seems to take those out of rhythm pull up 2s like it is his second job, and it kills the offense. Defensively, not sure anyone had a solution for rose, and people have to understand that hinrich just got hot and hit unreal shots. We kept delly on him after, but i think hand in the face fadeaway 2 from Hinrich is a shot you live with. Open 3s on the other hand....

 

[Mr. Orange]

I dont think trading to fill a hole and making a much larger hole in the process is a smart idea. At least we have Andy and TT who can play above average at center, do you really want to face the Bulls in the playoffs with Kyrie or Delly trying to guard Rose full time?

I understand your point, but I think LeBron will guard Rose in the playoffs in many situations. Mike Dunleavey doesn't scare me.

 

[chrisrich91]

He got benched for complaining and not getting back in transition, plain and simple. I saw no issues with his play otherwise. The pull up midrange Js he shot were almost all within the flow of the offense. When we switched him onto Rose defensively, Rose immediately pumped the breaks. I've said since the offseason, Dion is who we need guarding Rose until LeBron takes him in the final minutes. He's got the build to play him physically and he's got enough athleticism to stick with him.

I hope Dion takes the message Blatt sent in stride. I love Delly, but he's not an option out there at the end of games. If the Bulls were at full strength, Delly's presence could have cost us the game. I adore his effort/motor, but this league comes down to physical ability and talent sometimes.

Lastly, count me in with the group citing the team's lack of chemistry and flow offensively as the reason Dion doesn't look great out there right now. The offense is very disjointed right now and at times it's a struggle just to get into our sets. Things will look much different in a couple weeks.

 

[Soar]

During the Heat run, there was only one year a 4th player averaged double digit points.

That was Ray Allen with 10.9pts in 2012-2013.

I'm not saying that is a good model. In fact, the lack of depth is a key reason the Heat lost the years that they did, imo.

But it suggests Dion is going to have to be content with a defensive minded role, in which he doesn't score very much. This is a key question for him and for the team going forward.

Here is the value of Dion. It gives us another guy who can create. This is going to be really important in a tough series. Or if Kyrie or LeBron miss games.

Personally, I'd like him playing more with the bench. He can start the games. I'm not saying that. But he's pretty redundant with Irving, LeBron, and Love on the floor.

He'd be good in a lineup like this.

Waiters
Delly
Miller/Marion
Marion/Love
Thompson

 

[Frank Reynolds]

I'm in the boat that says Waiters needs to think defense first. Go back and look at all the great teams, they had guys on the perimeter who did a lot of dirty work, and could also hit jumpers in clutch situations, Bowen, Battier, Dumars.

Waiters is having an identity crisis, because he's grown up handling, scoring, slashing his whole life. For Dion's whole life, he's been looking for his offense first, ditto Irving.

Irving is showing a much better nose for the ball on defense, Waiters must step up and become a dominant perimeter defender, then by default he'll become the piece we really need. Let me explain.

Varejao is great because he gets his points by way of activity.

Andy never looks for his offense first, he gets his offense because of his activity on the defensive end. That gives his game balance, he's always in the right positions, and he rarely if ever forces a shot.

Remember how terrible Anthony Bennett was? I'm convinced that was because he was always concerned with his offense first. A lot of the old timers will tell you that it's best to get loosened up on the defensive end first. Once you are locked in on defense, it naturally causes you to stop focusing so hard on your offense. That's when shots fall.

Dion has put in the work, he's shot tens of thousands of jumpers, his shot is respectable, the stats will back it up. The stats also say he's more effective in a catch and shoot situation than when he "tries to go to work" on somebody. When he does that he's focusing too hard on trying to get his. He needs to accept the shots that come within the flow of the game and he'll be a much bigger asset to the team.

With so much offensive firepower, we really need Dion to shift his role and cause havoc on the defensive end instead.

Quantitatively, Waiters will never be Dwyane Wade. Never. What made Miami lethal, was their insanely athletic perimeter defense. Maybe Dion will never be Wade, but he's capable of scoring 20 easily in a game. Athletically, he's strong, young, quick with the ball. See where I'm going with this? Wade was rarely the 06" Wade who stormed the league. He was usually a 15-30 point, 2 steals, couple big momentum plays per game type of guy. Qualitatively, Dion can be that guy, swap Bosh for Love, swap Chalmers for Kyrie Irving, swap UD with TT and AV and I think we can win a championship, if our focus is in the right places.

With so much emphasis on our offense, do we really need Dion's scoring? Or does Dion need to sacrifice his game to help us win a championship?

His offense is just bonus at this point. His defense still needs improvement, particularly his focus. If he hones his focus on defense, his offense will come naturally, and that's the Dion Waiters this team needs. Not Dion "ayeeeeeAND1 (miss the shot)" Waiters.

 

[TyGuy]

Everything the Cav's are asking Dion to do goes against his natural instincts as a player. He is a very good and talented player, but he is most effective with the ball in his hands and looking to create shots for himself and others. The Cav's, i'm assuming, want him to move the basketball quickly, take open shots when they are there, and just generally look to pick his spots a little better and be more patient. That is extremely tough for a guy that likes to probe the defense and handle the basketball a lot. He is a very good spot up shooter from distance and he is pretty athletic, so he isn't a complete square peg in a round hole. I'm also not saying that he can't eventually master this new role that has been bestowed upon him. Ideally you do bring him off the bench which I think would allow him to play more to his instincts/strengths. We don't really have that luxury though as far as personnel goes; I guess you could start Delly, but I could see that going over like a turd in a punch-bowl here, keys wouldn't mind it though

 

[Pioneer10]

Wish we had quicker decision makers on this team: Love is the fastest in knowing what he wants to so but he's not a primary ball handler. I'd say Lebron, Kyrie, and Dion all like to do the probe and react thing

A guy like Kevin Martin would be great on this team: he's horrible on defense but on offense what an ideal fit - shoots or tries to get fouled immediately anytime he has an advantage.

Everything the Cav's are asking Dion to do goes against his natural instincts as a player. He is a very good and talented player, but he is most effective with the ball in his hands and looking to create shots for himself and others. The Cav's, i'm assuming, want him to move the basketball quickly, take open shots when they are there, and just generally look to pick his spots a little better and be more patient. That is extremely tough for a guy that likes to probe the defense and handle the basketball a lot. He is a very good spot up shooter from distance and he is pretty athletic, so he isn't a complete square peg in a round hole. I'm also not saying that he can't eventually master this new role that has been bestowed upon him. Ideally you do bring him off the bench which I think would allow him to play more to his instincts/strengths. We don't really have that luxury though as far as personnel goes; I guess you could start Delly, but I could see that going over like a turd in a punch-bowl here, keys wouldn't mind it though

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Whether Dion can do whatever it is people expect of him on this team is one question, but the more important question may be whether it makes sense in the first place. Seems to me like turning him into a 3 and D guy who will be expected to create only very rarely is wasting a lot of his talent.

Is Dion too talented offensively to become nothing more than a 4th option? And shit, that might even be generous, because we seem to run a decent amount of plays for Andy as well, which would make Dion the 5th option.

 

[stowfan]

Whether Dion can do whatever it is people expect of him on this team is one question, but the more important question may be whether it makes sense in the first place. Seems to me like turning him into a 3 and D guy who will be expected to create only very rarely is wasting a lot of his talent.

Is Dion too talented offensively to become nothing more than a 4th option? And shit, that might even be generous, because we seem to run a decent amount of plays for Andy as well, which would make Dion the 5th option.

I never thought I would see you say something nice about Dion

 

[DatDudeZ3]

Guys relax, it's been 2 out of 82 games... Dion isn't in the dog house already or anything crazy like that, nor has Dion played terrible. That was more of Blatt sending a message to Dion early in the season more than anything to let him know from the start if he doesn't play the right way, he won't play. I still expect Dion to play a pretty big role for this team this season.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Guys relax, it's been 2 out of 82 games... Dion isn't in the dog house already or anything crazy like that, nor has Dion played terrible. That was more of Blatt sending a message to Dion early in the season more than anything to let him know from the start if he doesn't play the right way, he won't play. I still expect Dion to play a pretty big role for this team this season.

I don't think the real issue has anything to do with Dion's attitude. We can assume that Blatt, LBJ, etc., will help him mature and get over all that stuff.

But to me, that still doesn't change the core issue. Dion can fit into to this offense, but that would require him to not use -- or at least underuse -- the key abilities that make him a real talent. I don't think it's really possible to have a ball-movement offense that includes three guys for whom creating off the dribble is a major part of their game.

We know that's always going to be a major part of LBJ's game. It's always going to be a part of KI's game simply because of his sick handles, but already, there are people saying he's still pounding the ball too much. That makes Dion the "third option" in terms of beating guys off the dribble, and I just can't see our offense working that way. Which means we're taking Dion's most elite skill, and saying we're really not going to be using it.

And what makes it even worse is that Dion needs to do more of that to improve his finishing. But I really can't see this group of players and their coach being okay with Dion creating more off the dribble just so that he can improve his finishing. In football terms, he needs "reps" to improve that skill, but we're at a point where individual developmental reps are a low priority because the goal is to win now.

People may rag on Dion for "wanting his" if he's not willing to give all that up, but the truth is that neither LBJ nor KI would be willing to give up that aspect of their games either.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Whether Dion can do whatever it is people expect of him on this team is one question, but the more important question may be whether it makes sense in the first place. Seems to me like turning him into a 3 and D guy who will be expected to create only very rarely is wasting a lot of his talent.

Is Dion too talented offensively to become nothing more than a 4th option? And shit, that might even be generous, because we seem to run a decent amount of plays for Andy as well, which would make Dion the 5th option.

I still don't understand the concern over Dion being too talented for his role. If he's willing to accept being a complimentary player (which is still too early to tell) I fail to see the negative here. Don't we want as many talented players on the Cavs as possible?

I always think back to the '09-'10 Cavs- a great team that went at least 10 deep with respectable vets, but lacked the talented, impact players around LeBron that are needed to win at the highest level. When the benches shortened in the playoffs our depth wasn't nearly as important, and the limitations in our starters were easily exposed. That's why I think it's imperative to build as talented a five-man unit as humanly possible, and Dion plays a prominent role in that as one of the best young SGs in the league.

Every player is making sacrifices to their game to fit onto this team, with Love and Kyrie arguably making the biggest adjustments. They're both too offensively gifted to be #2 or #3 scoring options, yet they understand the only way to achieve anything meaningful is to place the team's goals over theirs. Only time will tell if Dion makes the same sacrifices for the team, but I'm optimistic he will.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I still don't understand the concern over Dion being too talented for his role. If he's willing to accept being a complimentary player (which is still too early to tell) I fail to see the negative here. Don't we want as many talented players on the Cavs as possible?

One concern would be that even if he is willing to play that role for now, I'd question how willing he'd be to give up that much of his game long-term when he's faced with the decision to re-sign. I'd also question whether he'd be willing to accept money appropriate to a 4th/5th option on offense. Maybe he'll be fine with both, but I think that would make him the exception rather than the rule. Older vets are sometimes okay with a lessened role on a championship team. I don't think most younger guys who are still trying to establish their role and reputation in the league are quite as willing to sacrifice.

I always think back to the '09-'10 Cavs- a great team that went at least 10 deep with respectable vets, but lacked the talented, impact players around LeBron that are needed to win at the highest level. When the benches shortened in the playoffs our depth wasn't nearly as important, and the limitations in our starters were easily exposed. That's why I think it's imperative to build as talented a five-man unit as humanly possible, and Dion plays a prominent role in that as one of the best young SGs in the league.

I think there's a happier and more financially attainable medium between having only one dynamic offensive player in the starting 5, which is all we had in 2010, and having 4/5.

Every player is making sacrifices to their game to fit onto this team, with Love and Kyrie arguably making the biggest adjustments. They're both too offensively gifted to be #2 or #3 scoring options, yet they understand the only way to achieve anything meaningful is to place the team's goals over theirs. Only time will tell if Dion makes the same sacrifices for the team, but I'm optimistic he will.

I just think the sacrifices Dion is being asked to make are much larger/more fundamental to his game.

 

[MH32246]

Dion just has to accept the fact that he is a role player and basically hasn't proven anything in his career that would elevate him to thinking this should or can be the "Big 4" intend of the "Big 3". He says all the right things but he has to really buy in as a player . He is talented but he has to realize that he needs to do the little things Ex. diving on the floor for loose balls making the extra pass focusing more on the defensive end etc. He can't just be known or think of himself as an offensive weapon or a scorer. I think he has a role on this team and will be a key to our success if he actually practices what he preaches. I have yet to see him move without the ball when its not in his hand he usually just stands and calls for the ball.

 

[rabman_gold]

I'm not sure about this, but you would think expressing his desire to be a starter along with the theatrics ("AYE!") make him a player who craves the spotlight, something not granted because we already have 3 surefire-all-stars.

NOTE: Lakers had 2 or so playmakers while utilizing a post threat in the starting lineup though 2 eras. The Spurs had at least 2 and a post threat. Detroit, Boston, Miami had all-stars sacrificing to team up for rings. Right now, we're trying to squeeze 4 players in the lineup that need the ball. It's pushed the limit.

Also, the majority of sixth-man contenders each year are more than 25-27 years old. These are guys who either accepted/sacrificed the role for their team in order to compete. In exchange, they excelled as scoring threats off the bench.

Is Dion capable of that role? His favorite player happens to be the most ball-dominant guard he idolized growing up. And his tweets weren't exactly the most mature responses given his status as a celebrity. It's up to him if he wants to win or if he would rather demonstrate his behavior (perceived privilege) that resembles an all-star.

I'm not certain yet what it'll be. Let's wait the season out for a while and get back to it by the end of this year.