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Dion Waiters Traded

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Grade the Trade (Waiters + Kirk/Amundsen + 2nd rd pick for Smith, Shumpert, and 1st rd pick)

  • A+

    Votes: 18 7.1%
  • A

    Votes: 68 26.7%
  • B

    Votes: 106 41.6%
  • C

    Votes: 44 17.3%
  • D

    Votes: 10 3.9%
  • F

    Votes: 9 3.5%

  • Total voters
    255
  • Poll closed .
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:chuckles:

Drummond ranked #4 and Dion ranked #12. Saying Dion is/will be as good as Drummond is like saying Brandon Jennings is/will be as good as Kyrie Irving-- sure, the latter player is a fine NBA player, possibly a future All-Star. But the former is a future MVP candidate.
 
:chuckles:

Drummond ranked #4 and Dion ranked #12. Saying Dion is/will be as good as Drummond is like saying Brandon Jennings is/will be as good as Kyrie Irving-- sure, the latter player is a fine NBA player, possibly a future All-Star. But the former is a future MVP candidate.
Brandon Jennings will never be near an all-star. He has peaked as a certified chucker.
 
Brandon Jennings will never be near an all-star. He has peaked as a certified chucker.

Never know what a player may do. He is, after all, only 24. He has a ton of talent but is a headcase who's never been put in a nice structured environment.

But regardless, my ultimate point, the one relevant to this thread, is that Dion is significantly is worse than Drummond-- and that that's not an indictment on Dion. Drummond's just that good.
 
Never know what a player may do. He is, after all, only 24. He has a ton of talent but is a headcase who's never been put in a nice structured environment.

But regardless, my ultimate point, the one relevant to this thread, is that Dion is significantly is worse than Drummond-- and that that's not an indictment on Dion. Drummond's just that good.
:shakehead
 
The thing disappoints me most about Thorpe is he's supposed to be a really knowledgeable analyst. Narratives aren't supposed to be the basis for his ratings.

Yet, when someone tells me Brad Beal is a "great" shooter, what else other than the general narrative that Beal is a great shooter could form the basis of that opinion? While his form is good and it's easy to believe he will soon be a great shooter, there isn't a statistic you can point to that shows that he's currently great. Below 40% from 3, below 80% from the line, 41% from the field, an eFG well below 50%.

When compared to say, Klay Thompson's second year, Beal is a clear class below. Now, Beal is much younger than Thompson, but again Thorpe's argument isn't that Beal is going to be a great shooter. It's that he's a great shooter today.

No, he's not. And you know what? The fact that two years in a row he's shot 78% from the line...that's concerning. Generally guys who are going to be truly great shooters, in the mold of Ray Allen (the general comparison for Beal coming out of college) or Reggie Miller, are going to shoot well from the line right away. That's a pretty good indicator to just how good of a shooter a guy will be later in his career. I mean look at the best shooters in the league right now. Durant, Curry, and Thompson I'd say are in most people's top 5. All of them were well over 80% from the line right away.

Just making a point that Brad Beal was called a great shooter coming out of college and that analysis has stuck with him, even though up to this point, he has not been one. And David Thorpe is supposed to be telling me how these players are performing today, not relying on the player profiles out of college.
 
I'm sure Beal's shooting numbers would be a lot higher if he was just a spot up shooter, but they need him to do more than that, and he isn't capable of getting his own offense consistently.
 
I think Dion will play a great game Tuesday win or lose. Like to see him stay competitive and work hard on his game this off season.
 
I loved Terrence Jones cumming out of college. My player comparison for him turned out to be asinine, but man is he gonna be a stud.

I was big on TJ too before the draft over at realgm.com. I don't know why he went under the radar so much, he has a very versatile skill set.
 
I was big on TJ too before the draft over at realgm.com. I don't know why he went under the radar so much, he has a very versatile skill set.

I think it is easy for teams to shy away from combo forwards, sometimes you get Terrence Jones, sometimes you get Derrick Williams.
 
I think it is easy for teams to shy away from combo forwards, sometimes you get Terrence Jones, sometimes you get Derrick Williams.

I'd still be happy with Derrick Williams. I think he's a good player. Just a victim of being in poor situations. I see your point though.
 
I think it is easy for teams to shy away from combo forwards, sometimes you get Terrence Jones, sometimes you get Derrick Williams.

There's a difference between being versatile and being a tweener. It was pretty clear going into the draft that TJ was versatile.
 
There's a difference between being versatile and being a tweener. It was pretty clear going into the draft that TJ was versatile.

For some reason I was thinking that Jones was smaller than the 6'9.5" in shoes Draft Express has him listed as.
 
The thing disappoints me most about Thorpe is he's supposed to be a really knowledgeable analyst. Narratives aren't supposed to be the basis for his ratings.

Yet, when someone tells me Brad Beal is a "great" shooter, what else other than the general narrative that Beal is a great shooter could form the basis of that opinion? While his form is good and it's easy to believe he will soon be a great shooter, there isn't a statistic you can point to that shows that he's currently great. Below 40% from 3, below 80% from the line, 41% from the field, an eFG well below 50%.

When compared to say, Klay Thompson's second year, Beal is a clear class below. Now, Beal is much younger than Thompson, but again Thorpe's argument isn't that Beal is going to be a great shooter. It's that he's a great shooter today.

No, he's not. And you know what? The fact that two years in a row he's shot 78% from the line...that's concerning. Generally guys who are going to be truly great shooters, in the mold of Ray Allen (the general comparison for Beal coming out of college) or Reggie Miller, are going to shoot well from the line right away. That's a pretty good indicator to just how good of a shooter a guy will be later in his career. I mean look at the best shooters in the league right now. Durant, Curry, and Thompson I'd say are in most people's top 5. All of them were well over 80% from the line right away.

Just making a point that Brad Beal was called a great shooter coming out of college and that analysis has stuck with him, even though up to this point, he has not been one. And David Thorpe is supposed to be telling me how these players are performing today, not relying on the player profiles out of college.

Exactly. Thorpe consistently shapes the current narrative to fit his early prognostications. He's always been down on Dion as an inefficient volume scorer. He's actually addressed Dion's improved play in past articles, but always reserved his own judgment as the right one, like, "we'll see if he can keep it up." Beal, on the other hand, is a great shooter because Thorpe knew he was gonna be a great shooter; Beal's lower efficiency is clearly just a slump that he'll break out of.

At least it's not the typical Cleveland-hating media bias, though. After all, Thorpe will take it to his grave that Tristan Thompson will be a significant player in this league. Someday.
 
The thing disappoints me most about Thorpe is he's supposed to be a really knowledgeable analyst. Narratives aren't supposed to be the basis for his ratings.

Yet, when someone tells me Brad Beal is a "great" shooter, what else other than the general narrative that Beal is a great shooter could form the basis of that opinion? While his form is good and it's easy to believe he will soon be a great shooter, there isn't a statistic you can point to that shows that he's currently great. Below 40% from 3, below 80% from the line, 41% from the field, an eFG well below 50%.

As a coach/development guy, Thorpe tends to lean his bias towards what he sees as opposed to stats. Beal has a really good shooting form, and in Thorpe's mind, that's what equates to a great shooter.
 
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