Dion Waiters Traded

[kovanovich]

Exactly. Thorpe consistently shapes the current narrative to fit his early prognostications. He's always been down on Dion as an inefficient volume scorer. He's actually addressed Dion's improved play in past articles, but always reserved his own judgment as the right one, like, "we'll see if he can keep it up." Beal, on the other hand, is a great shooter because Thorpe knew he was gonna be a great shooter; Beal's lower efficiency is clearly just a slump that he'll break out of.

At least it's not the typical Cleveland-hating media bias, though. After all, Thorpe will take it to his grave that Tristan Thompson will be a significant player in this league. Someday.

Thorpe also said that he thinks Bennett is going to be a star. And as you say, he was a big Thompson supporter from the beginning.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Thorpe also said that he thinks Bennett is going to be a star. And as you say, he was a big Thompson supporter from the beginning.

Maybe we should start hoping that Thorpe hates our guys since he's apparently always wrong.

 

[bbinla]

While I know that I am going to post something about Dion in the Dion thread, there was an interesting point made when the discussion turned to Bradley Beal. The observation was that Beal has shot 78% from the line over the last two years...and that truly great shooters, in the mold of Ray Allen (the general comparison for Beal coming out of college) or Reggie Miller (and now Durant, Curry and Thompson) are well over 80% from the line. While Dion clearly worked extremely hard last summer (and it has clearly showed this year) on his 3 point stroke and other key items, the fact that he has shot .684 from the line is not just inexcusable, but appalling. According to ESPN stats, this places Dion BEHIND such luminary shooters such as TRISTAN THOMPSON. Here is a copy of the current rankings from ESPN:

107 Tristan Thompson, PF CLE 81 11.7 2.9 4.2 234 338 .692
Al Jefferson, C CHA 72 22.0 2.6 3.8 189 273 .692
109 Marcin Gortat, C WSH 80 13.2 1.9 2.8 154 224 .688
110 Dion Waiters, SG CLE 69 15.9 2.3 3.3 158 231 .684
PER GAME TOTAL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP PPG FTM FTA FTM FTA FT%
111 Giannis Antetokounmpo, SG MIL 76 6.8 1.8 2.7 138 202 .683
112 Derrick Favors, C UTAH 72 13.2 2.6 3.9 185 278 .665
113 Greg Monroe, PF DET 81 15.1 2.9 4.4 237 358 .662
114 Kenneth Faried, PF DEN 78 13.6 2.5 3.8 194 299 .649

NOW, THAT'S SOME STROKERS.

There really is NO excuse for any guy who has range and a good stroke to shoot less than 75% and should actually be at or much closer to 80%. It also means that a team cannot have full confidence in your ability coming down the stretch if you are to be "the man" or "one of the two men". Dion shoots about 3.5 FT a game and, as soon as he stops pouting each time he drives and misses the shot (which I do believe DOES affect the refs as no ref will look to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who is constantly complaining....I know this through when I lived with my (thankfully) ex-wife), I think that number has a good chance to rise. While he doesn't have to become Reggie Miller, he also does not need to continue to be the 2nd coming of Tristan.

As hard as he worked last summer on his game is the time he needs to devote to free throw shooting only. This is the one spot, with or without Kyrie, that Dion needs to dramatically improve upon next year.

 

[Nom]

While I know that I am going to post something about Dion in the Dion thread, there was an interesting point made when the discussion turned to Bradley Beal. The observation was that Beal has shot 78% from the line over the last two years...and that truly great shooters, in the mold of Ray Allen (the general comparison for Beal coming out of college) or Reggie Miller (and now Durant, Curry and Thompson) are well over 80% from the line. While Dion clearly worked extremely hard last summer (and it has clearly showed this year) on his 3 point stroke and other key items, the fact that he has shot .684 from the line is not just inexcusable, but appalling. According to ESPN stats, this places Dion BEHIND such luminary shooters such as TRISTAN THOMPSON. Here is a copy of the current rankings from ESPN:

107 Tristan Thompson, PF CLE 81 11.7 2.9 4.2 234 338 .692
Al Jefferson, C CHA 72 22.0 2.6 3.8 189 273 .692
109 Marcin Gortat, C WSH 80 13.2 1.9 2.8 154 224 .688
110 Dion Waiters, SG CLE 69 15.9 2.3 3.3 158 231 .684
PER GAME TOTAL
RK PLAYER TEAM GP PPG FTM FTA FTM FTA FT%
111 Giannis Antetokounmpo, SG MIL 76 6.8 1.8 2.7 138 202 .683
112 Derrick Favors, C UTAH 72 13.2 2.6 3.9 185 278 .665
113 Greg Monroe, PF DET 81 15.1 2.9 4.4 237 358 .662
114 Kenneth Faried, PF DEN 78 13.6 2.5 3.8 194 299 .649

NOW, THAT'S SOME STROKERS.

There really is NO excuse for any guy who has range and a good stroke to shoot less than 75% and should actually be at or much closer to 80%. It also means that a team cannot have full confidence in your ability coming down the stretch if you are to be "the man" or "one of the two men". Dion shoots about 3.5 FT a game and, as soon as he stops pouting each time he drives and misses the shot (which I do believe DOES affect the refs as no ref will look to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who is constantly complaining....I know this through when I lived with my (thankfully) ex-wife), I think that number has a good chance to rise. While he doesn't have to become Reggie Miller, he also does not need to continue to be the 2nd coming of Tristan.

As hard as he worked last summer on his game is the time he needs to devote to free throw shooting only. This is the one spot, with or without Kyrie, that Dion needs to dramatically improve upon next year.

He's actually shooting 74% from the FT line in the 4th quarter this year.

 

[Nathan S]

He's actually shooting 74% from the FT line in the 4th quarter this year.

Why can't he give that level of effort the whole game? Lazy piece of shit!!! :chuckles:

 

[Lee63]

:

[I]There really is NO excuse for any guy who has range and a good stroke to shoot less than 75% and should actually be at or much closer to 80%.[/I] .

Have you checked the entire team's FT%? It's horrendous. It's not just Dion.

Andy declined to FT% 68%
Zeller declined FT% 71%
Deng declined FT% 77%
Jack declined FT% 83% from 84% at GS (not bad of course but did go down)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2014.html

AND NO We do not want Dion to concentrate on Free Throws Only over the summer! That's crazy.

 

[shoes22]

:

There really is NO excuse for any guy who has range and a good stroke to shoot less than 75% and should actually be at or much closer to 80%.

...what does having a good range have anything to do with free throws? Free throws are the literal absence of range.

 

[Deezus]

...what does having a good range have anything to do with free throws? Free throws are the literal absence of range.

The idea is that if you can make a decent clip of your 3-pointers (a much more difficult shot from 23+ feet with defensive pressure) that you should be able to make a correspondingly decent clip of your free throws (a much easier shot from 15 feet with no defensive pressure). Its one of those things that I think a lot of people believe, but I'm not sure if there's any actual data to back it up.

I tend to agree with the notion that if you can make 35+% of your 3-point attempts, you should be able to regularly shoot 75% at the foul line... But its just an opinion, and they're completely different shots.

 

[Lee63]

The idea is that if you can make a decent clip of your 3-pointers (a much more difficult shot from 23+ feet with defensive pressure) that you should be able to make a correspondingly decent clip of your free throws (a much easier shot from 15 feet with no defensive pressure). Its one of those things that I think a lot of people believe, but I'm not sure if there's any actual data to back it up.

I tend to agree with the notion that if you can make 35+% of your 3-point attempts, you should be able to regularly shoot 75% at the foul line... But its just an opinion, and they're completely different shots.

I'm not sure how my name got tied into this quote above this one. It was from Shoes22 not me on" good range and free throws are literally absence of range". I didn't say this. Just wanted to make the correction that's all.

 

[polklop1]

I don't think that anyone would argue that Dion doesn't need to improve his FT%. In my opinion he puts way too much arc on them, but I imagine he knows what works best for him so I don't know.

 

[Tornicade]

I think i heard someone ask for data.

Incoming Data.
190 players qualified under the following criteria:
-more than 60 games in a season.
-averaging 3 or more 3 pa at .350 or higher
-shot under 80% ft.

105 of those 190
-less than 75% free throw shooting.
This list includes lebron james, paul pierce, lebron james, Dan majerle. Mike Miller,Vince Carter, Clyde Drexler and Scottie Pippen to name a few.


I removed the FT% altogether from the criteria. and had a sample of 327 players.

This would mean it occurs 33% of the time that a proficient 3 point shooter with 3 or more attempts a game with a 35% or higher 3 points percentage has dipped below 75% Ft in a season at some point in their career.

 

[catfish]

I don't think that anyone would argue that Dion doesn't need to improve his FT%. In my opinion he puts way too much arc on them, but I imagine he knows what works best for him so I don't know.

I think free throws are boring for Dion. He just wants to get them over with. He rushes and doesnt bend his knees. Maybe someone can explain
to him that they are sometimes the difference between winning and losing.

 

[Cashius X]

I think free throws are boring for Dion. He just wants to get them over with. He rushes and doesnt bend his knees. Maybe someone can explain
to him that they are sometimes the difference between winning and losing.

Wait, what? I think just the opposite.

He typically takes his time and really tries his best to make each and every one. His bad FT shooting is just a result of him being too anxious and nervous at this point. He's overthinking them. When he misses one you see how visibly upset and agitated he gets so I don't see how you can interpret that as "being bored".

 

[caf]

Lets not forget that jump shots are completely different than free throws. The reason it is called a 'jump' shot is because you leave your feet during the shot (aka jump). You don't leave your feet during a free throw, so the mechanics are different.

Of course he has to work on his FT%. His game requires he gets to the basket (and hence the line). FT% and turn overs are usually the difference between winning and losing as well... so he needs to get better. But he is only a sophomore and his minutes this year were all kinds of fucked, so I'll cut him some slack.

 

[Jack Brickman]

Lets not forget that jump shots are completely different than free throws. The reason it is called a 'jump' shot is because you leave your feet during the shot (aka jump). You don't leave your feet during a free throw, so the mechanics are different.

Of course he has to work on his FT%. His game requires he gets to the basket (and hence the line). FT% and turn overs are usually the difference between winning and losing as well... so he needs to get better. But he is only a sophomore and his minutes this year were all kinds of fucked, so I'll cut him some slack.

Plus he was better last year and in college, which means he can hit them at a higher clip. I think we should just consider it a bad year for him from the stripe and see what happens next year. The kid isn't short on work ethic, so I have to assume he'll be working on free throws this summer, among other things.