Dwyane Wade Safari

[amazon123]

People point fingers and laugh at the Lakers for overpaying a declining superstar and putting themselves in cap hell, then point fingers and laugh at Riley for not doing the same.

I don't like Riley, but contracts shouldn't be about "thanking" or "showing respect to" a player for what they've done in the past. They should be about what a player can actually do for a franchise in the present and future.

To me, Wade's injury history makes him a terrible choice for a max or near max contract.

He's not looking for a max, he's looking to get back the money he gave up in the last 5 years, and a 3 year deal. Riley is looking to cut bait with D Wade after next season.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

He's not looking for a max, he's looking to get back the money he gave up in the last 5 years,

How does that work? Riley pays him what he's supposedly worth, then tosses in a bunch more millions to make up for what Wade gave up the last 5 years? That's overpaying for his expected production by definition.

.....and a 3 year deal. Riley is looking to cut bait with D Wade after next season.

Riley probably figures that a three year deal for Wade, at the numbers Wade wants, is paying too much. He's probably right.

It's a less extreme version of the Kobe situation, but still stupid. "Let's overpay the guy who has made astronomical amounts of money -- just to show our appreciation -- and if that means we field a less competitive team, eh, no big deal."

Being on the side of Riley makes me feel slimy, but he's right.

 

[amazon123]

Those subliminal messages...Bron taught him well

 

[amazon123]

How does that work? Riley pays him what he's supposedly worth, then tosses in a bunch more millions to make up for what Wade gave up the last 5 years? That's overpaying for his expected production by definition.



Riley probably figures that a three year deal for Wade, at the numbers Wade wants, is paying too much. He's probably right.

It's a less extreme version of the Kobe situation, but still stupid. "Let's overpay the guy who has made astronomical amounts of money -- just to show our appreciation -- and if that means we field a less competitive team, eh, no big deal."

Being on the side of Riley makes me feel slimy, but he's right.

Yes it is an overpay, but he's their best player in franchise history, it's not "just" business when you're talking about D Wade. If Lebron brings 2 or 3 championships to the Cavs, towards the end of his career is Dan Gilbert going to just cut bait with him because he's asking for too much money?

 

[gourimoko]

How does that work? Riley pays him what he's supposedly worth, then tosses in a bunch more millions to make up for what Wade gave up the last 5 years? That's overpaying for his expected production by definition.

No it isn't overpaying by definition.

Riley and Wade agreed that Wade would absorb the costs of forming the Heat. Wade then, again this last offseason, took less money so that they could sign Kyle Lowry, that didn't happen. These pay cuts were the collective decision of Riley and Wade, and now that they have Goran Dragic's bird rights, there is no need for Wade to continue taking a pay cut as they can re-sign Dragic to a max and extend Wade out into his final year.

Wade has given up tens of millions of dollars in earnings to the Heat so that they could win those last two championships and possibly be contenders last season (and next season). Without Wade, Dragic walks and Bosh would surely ask to be traded. With Wade, they are legit contenders.

It is not remotely overpaying for him to ask for his contract to simply be extended out 2 more years.

Riley probably figures that a three year deal for Wade, at the numbers Wade wants, is paying too much. He's probably right.

Bullshit.

Riley is showing his true colors and even members of the Heat board realize this.

He's trying to stiff the face of the franchise and he's now leaking nonsense about Durant joining the Heat, which has a next to zero percent chance of happening.

It's a less extreme version of the Kobe situation, but still stupid. "Let's overpay the guy who has made astronomical amounts of money -- just to show our appreciation -- and if that means we field a less competitive team, eh, no big deal."

No, it's not remotely close.

Kobe has never taken a pay cut. Wade took two fairly substantial cuts. It's completely different. Wade sacrificed for the franchise, Kobe didn't.

You're also saying Wade made an astronomical amount of money, which is an odd thing to say considering he's made substantially less than either James or Bosh; and is expected to sign a deal for a fraction of what Goran Dragic will make next season.

It's absurd, and obviously offensive to Wade. Pay the man his money, he earned that franchise 3 rings and he's the only reason any of their starters want to play there.

Being on the side of Riley makes me feel slimy, but he's right.

No he's not, not even Heat fans agree with you.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Yes it is an overpay, but he's their best player in franchise history, it's not "just" business when you're talking about D Wade.

It's about putting the best possible team on the floor both for the fans and for the guys who are playing. If that's "business" to you, then it should be "just" business.

The idea that the fans and other players should both have to suffer through a crappier team just so the team can overpay the guy who already has been paid more money by the franchise than any other player in history strikes me as exactly the opposite of how things should be. Wade getting another $10-20 million on top of the more than $100 million he's already been paid should have a higer priority than what is best for the franchise, 14 other players, and hundreds of thousands of fans?

I don't get it.

If Lebron brings 2 or 3 championships to the Cavs, towards the end of his career is Dan Gilbert going to just cut bait with him because he's asking for too much money?

Well, I'll answer your question, then you can answer mine. Deal?

If after all the money LBJ will have made not only from salary, but from endorsement, he then demands more money than he is actually worth from the franchise, I absolutely hope Gilbert refuses to pay. It would be unfair to the current players and fans if he didn't.

So now my question: based on everything you've said about rewarding great players, do you think the Lakers were right to pay Kobe this last contract?

 

[Huber.]

Why would he go to Washington besides that's his hometown even tho Durant has said he liked Texas more

Because he then gets out of the West. Which means resting throughout the season getting ready for the playoffs. Not to mention Wall is 24 and Beal is 21.

 

[amazon123]

Well, I'll answer your question, then you can answer mine. Deal?

If after all the money LBJ will have made not only from salary, but from endorsement, he then demands more money than he is actually worth from the franchise, I absolutely hope Gilbert refuses to pay. It would be unfair to the current players and fans if he didn't.

So now my question: based on everything you've said about rewarding great players, do you think the Lakers were right to pay Kobe this last contract?

It is asinine to think Lebron doesn't deserve a payout if he brings the first championship to Cleveland in over 50 years. Chances are a rebuild has to occur anyway, to not honor the franchise's best player is ridiculous. A Spurs type dynasty is an exception, not the rule.

The Lakers were absolutely right to pay Kobe. After the Dwight/Nash experiment didn't work, it was clear that the Lakers needed to rebuild, both through the draft and FAs. If they didn't pay Kobe the money, who would they pick up? Melo and Bosh were the only big free agents during that time period, both of whom probably did not want to play with Kobe. The rebuild was going to happen, whether or not Kobe got his money.

 

[gourimoko]

It's about putting the best possible team on the floor both for the fans and for the guys who are playing. If that's "business" to you, then it should be "just" business.

By this logic, James should've never come back - instead, he should've facilitated Kyle Lowry or another such player coming to Miami. All he had to do was say "yes, I'm staying" and Lowry would have left Toronto; he didn't, and Lowry figured he was bolting so he re-upped.

The idea that the fans and other players should both have to suffer through a crappier team just so the team can overpay the guy who already has been paid more money by the franchise than any other player in history strikes me as exactly the opposite of how things should be.

He's been paid more than any other player in history because their best players typically bolt. It's not hard to understand that Wade was a drafted superstar, franchise player, who re-signed in 2010 for $14.2M, which was substantially less than he could have gotten otherwise.

Wade getting another $10-20 million on top of the more than $100 million he's already been paid should have a higer priority than what is best for the franchise, 14 other players, and hundreds of thousands of fans?

The fans want Wade to get paid; you don't.

I don't get it.

Because you're not trying to. No one wants Wade to leave the Heat except Pat Riley and a few Cavs fans who aren't actually Heat fans. Just go to their board, tell them what you think and see what they say.

If after all the money LBJ will have made not only from salary, but from endorsement, he then demands more money than he is actually worth from the franchise, I absolutely hope Gilbert refuses to pay. It would be unfair to the current players and fans if he didn't.

Lol.

LeBron James is expecting to sign a max contract in the offseason of 2017-18 when the new TV deal kicks in. Everyone knows this, it is no secret. But what many folks don't realize is what that actually will cost.

He is expecting to sign a $37.45M contract in 2017, it might even be more than that. That's 5-years, with a starting salary of $37.45M. That's $49.09M when James is 37 years old, and a net contract of $215.37M over the life of the contract.

Is James going to be worth $37.45M in 2 years? Almost twice what he's paid today?

That depends, but by my estimation, considering what he's giving the franchise, the answer is yes.

Wade has given more to Miami than James has or likely will to Cleveland, and he's asking for a pittance in comparison. 2 more years at $16.1M and he retires - no max deal, no TV contract considerations. He doesn't want another ring, he just wants a deal he can retire on and walk away a Heat lifer.

He is owed that much, especially with the cap going up to what is will in 2017. A $16M deal is comparable to what Tristan Thompson will make, yet Wade has given Miami 3 rings, and 5 Finals appearances.

So now my question: based on everything you've said about rewarding great players, do you think the Lakers were right to pay Kobe this last contract?

Not remotely the same situation, but Kobe's deal was fair given the numbers he was putting up. Hindsight bias says Kobe was going to be injured for two seasons; but that hadn't happened previously.

It's just an annoying line of reasoning.

James.. please come back, James please talk to Love, Love please sacrifice your numbers, Love please be okay with coming off the bench, Love please opt-in so we can sleep at night... And then, when these guys are on the wrong side of 30; hey man, it's just business, fuck off....

 

[Kizzle]

I would've eventually caved to paying Kobe that money he got his last contract but honestly I wouldn't have liked it and I would've been man enough to tell Kobe why.

On the player side you take all the money you get because these owner and GM mofos will tell you to take a paycut and then not fucking spend extra money in FA.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It is asinine to think Lebron doesn't deserve a payout if he brings the first championship to Cleveland in over 50 years.

Getting a bit rude, aren't we?

I think his "payout" comes when he picks up those massive paychecks every payday while he was playing for the team and worth it. It comes when the notoriety he gets from playing in the league at the level he does enables him to earn massive endorsement deals. And it comes when the Cavs bend over backwards to give jobs to his buddies. Each side is getting what they want.

Chances are a rebuild has to occur anyway, to not honor the franchise's best player is ridiculous. A Spurs type dynasty is an exception, not the rule.

Who said I'm not in favor of honoring him? I'm all for that. Hoist his jersey into the rafters, build a statue, etc., Those are honors. The standing ovations and cheers fans give him -- and hopefully victory parades. Those are honors.. But signing a late-career deal where he's overpaid? That's just dumb.

The Lakers were absolutely right to pay Kobe.

Well, we just differ on this. You look on salary as a reward from something you've done in the past. I look it as payment from what you're expected to do now, and in the future. Different factors come into play if you're talking about a long-time employee of a regular business who may be ill, or older, and you decide to keep him or her on for longer. But that's a form of charity for someone who is financially struggling.

That ain't LBJ, Wade, or Kobe

Sure, sometimes you sign a guy to a contract that won't be a good deal a few years down the road because he's aging, but that's the price you pay for getting him now, when his value is higher. That's different from signing a guy to a huge contract for sentimental reasons.

After the Dwight/Nash experiment didn't work, it was clear that the Lakers needed to rebuild, both through the draft and FAs. If they didn't pay Kobe the money, who would they pick up?

There weren't players because they had no money. But they certainly could have signed someone, even role players. Or at least used that cap space to eat contracts and get some high draft choices.

But forgetting that, if the franchise has money to burn like that, maybe cut prices for fans, or simply keep it against the day when you're competitive again and will be paying a repeater tax. I certainly see no moral or other obligation to pay a guy whose already made hundreds of millions another contract that he's not worth.

Or maybe just take the money what you would have spent on a bad contract and give a bunch of it away to a worthy charity in your own city.

 

[gourimoko]

I would've eventually caved to paying Kobe that money he got his last contract but honestly I wouldn't have liked it and I would've been man enough to tell Kobe why.

On the player side you take all the money you get because these owner and GM mofos will tell you to take a paycut and then not fucking spend extra money in FA.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

On the player side you take all the money you get because these owner and GM mofos will tell you to take a paycut and then not fucking spend extra money in FA.

I don't have a problem with a player who gets the maximum they can. That's their right. And it is also the player's right to keep collecting a huge paycheck even if he's end up sucking and not being worth it. But that's exactly why franchises should be careful when signing people to make sure they're getting their money's worth.

 

[gourimoko]

Getting a bit rude, aren't we?

I think his "payout" comes when he picks up those massive paychecks every payday while he was playing for the team and worth it.

He took $22.4M less money over 4 years on his 2010-11 for the franchises sake, that's not imaginary money, that's real lost earnings. He could've just went to Chicago and signed for the max. You act like the Heat were the only team offering Wade max money.

He didn't leave with LeBron and sign the max somewhere else, he re-upped. That's another $4m/yr he left on the table instead of signing a max deal somewhere else (or signing for $16m with Chicago, his hometown). By doing so, this made it so that the Heat could sign Bosh and sign Dragic, their core moving forward.

It's amazing that folks have such a short-term memory when it comes to paying up on their debts.

It comes when the notoriety he gets from playing in the league at the level he does enables him to earn massive endorsement deals.

He killed his ability to get endorsement deals by bringing in LeBron James and Chris Bosh into his own market. Bosh stated as much in 2013.

You really don't get it ... Wade sacrificed tens of millions of dollars in earnings for those 2 rings, Arison made hundreds of millions off of it, and Riley was viewed as the best GM in a decade because of it. Now it's his turn.

 

[amazon123]

Getting a bit rude, aren't we?

I think his "payout" comes when he picks up those massive paychecks every payday while he was playing for the team and worth it. It comes when the notoriety he gets from playing in the league at the level he does enables him to earn massive endorsement deals. And it comes when the Cavs bend over backwards to give jobs to his buddies. Each side is getting what they want.



Who said I'm not in favor of honoring him? I'm all for that. Hoist his jersey into the rafters, build a statue, etc., Those are honors. The standing ovations and cheers fans give him -- and hopefully victory parades. Those are honors.. But signing a late-career deal where he's overpaid? That's just dumb.



Well, we just differ on this. You look on salary as a reward from something you've done in the past. I look it as payment from what you're expected to do now, and in the future. Different factors come into play if you're talking about a long-time employee of a regular business who may be ill, or older, and you decide to keep him or her on for longer. But that's a form of charity for someone who is financially struggling.

That ain't LBJ, Wade, or Kobe

Sure, sometimes you sign a guy to a contract that won't be a good deal a few years down the road because he's aging, but that's the price you pay for getting him now, when his value is higher. That's different from signing a guy to a huge contract for sentimental reasons.



They weren't players because they had no money. But they certainly could have signed someone, even role players. Or at least used that cap space to eat contracts and get some high draft choices.

But forgetting that, if the franchise has money to burn like that, maybe cut prices for fans, or simply keep it against the day when you're competitive again and will be paying a repeater tax. I certainly see no moral or other obligation to pay a guy whose already made hundreds of millions another contract that he's not worth.

Or maybe just take the money what you would have spent on a bad contract and give a bunch of it away to a worthy charity in your own city.

They had money. Even when Kobe signed his deal, they had room for one more super max contract after Gasol left, who btw the Lakers offered more than the Bulls.

You mistaken the Lakers with another organization. They don't care about tax. They signed some multi-billion dollar contract with TWC that makes them flush with cash. Oh btw, they are the Lakers. Signing Kobe to that contract makes them see like a family, not the BS family crap Miami keeps talking about. Even the Cavs are a bigger family than Miami, Miami would have never given Andy that contract.