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ESPN Player ranking - The Cavs players

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A perfect example of a cancer would be Gilbert Arenas. Had phenomenal gifts on the court, but his off-the-court tactics, his attitude, and his lack of humility created a glass ceiling for the team he played for. If I owned a team and I had an option of picking Arenas or an NBDL level player, I'm picking that NBDL player with high character first.
I certainly wouldn't...my options are Gilbert Arenas in his prime or a D-Leaguer?? I pick Arenas every time. I don't care if he has attitude problems...that guy has star potential, so even with his set of issues gonna make me a lot more money than some random NBDL player.
 
I certainly wouldn't...my options are Gilbert Arenas in his prime or a D-Leaguer?? I pick Arenas every time. I don't care if he has attitude problems...that guy has star potential, so even with his set of issues gonna make me a lot more money than some random NBDL player.

Because you're not thinking like a GM or team owner. Gilbert Arenas will ask for $20m/year, and will rob you of $120MM, injured or not. A random NBDL leaguer will not help me with wins immediately, but will also cost me only $800k. That also sets me up to earn a future lottery pick. At the draft, i'll aim to pick a super talented player without the baggage.

In the short term, you win a few games and get to the 1st round of the playoffs. In the long run, I end up drafting a guy like Duncan.
 
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I don't the team-kill/cancer potential comment was in reference to what went on during the games last year, so much as about what went on in the locker room (or rumored to have gone on). One can affect the team off of the court. Will it be an issue this year? I don't think so, but it will be interesting to watch to see how Dion is used and how he reacts to it. Let's not pretend it isn't worth monitoring. Few can question his passion. It is part of what makes him so good and likable to many.

First of all, even if that were true, I don't care if they all hate each other's guts off the court as long as they win on it. But that's not how it works anyway. Teams that have guys they hate on them don't play better with the asshole on the floor. So no, it won't be interesting to watch how Dion reacts, just like it wasn't last year or the year before.
 
You never heard of the irrational confidence guy? You've written a great description for guys who aren't superstars but aren't role players either and who are confident enough that they can win a playoff game for you when nothing else is working. Vinnie Johnson, Vernon Maxwell, Jason Terry, etc all say hello.

No need to quote a guy who couldn't hack it in finance. I worked for a hedge fund myself.

As for those players you listed. They all accepted the "role player" moniker, despite their irrational confidence. Those players were willingly ready to take a backseat or play the 6th man role. Jason Terry has publicly taken and even asked his coaches to do whatever it took to help the team win. When coming off the bench, they made the best of it by trying to win the 6th man award.

Dion Waiters? "Nah mang, I ain't going never wanna be no nothing but a starter nah mean?"

I promise you this. If/when Waiters is asked to come off the bench (which we will have to if we want to win), he will pout, complain and moan. He will want to get traded.
 
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First of all, even if that were true, I don't care if they all hate each other's guts off the court as long as they win on it. But that's not how it works anyway. Teams that have guys they hate on them don't play better with the asshole on the floor. So no, it won't be interesting to watch how Dion reacts, just like it wasn't last year or the year before.

Not sure where I said the team hated Dion. Interesting reading comprehension skills you have there. Anyway, I still think it will be interesting to see how Dion adjusts into whatever roll he is put. I suppose the locker room hubbub last year wasn't at all disconcerting? Some teams handle players not getting along with each other well. Others do not. But, it may not even be an issue. Might be a giant love fest for all I know.
 
No need to quote a guy who couldn't hack it in finance. I worked for a hedge fund myself.

As for those players you listed. They all accepted the "role player" moniker, despite their irrational confidence. Those players were willingly ready to take a backseat or play the 6th man role. Jason Terry has publicly taken and even asked his coaches to do whatever it took to help the team win. When coming off the bench, they made the best of it by trying to win the 6th man award.

Dion Waiters? "Nah mang, I ain't going never wanna be no nothing but a starter nah mean?"

I promise you this. If/when Waiters is asked to come off the bench (which we will have to if we want to win), he will pout, complain and moan. He will want to get traded.

Really? You've been here a month and you're making bullshit promises like that? We've never seen Dion play on a winning team in the NBA yet, I have no doubt he'll accept whatever role he's asked this year surrounded by a new coach and this much talent.

It's not like this is uncharted territory for Dion, he only started one game in his two seasons at Syracuse before he even got to the NBA. Despite sitting behind guys that never sniffed the NBA (no offense Brandon Triche, that's more for Scoop Jardine) Dion accepted his role off the bench and was still a major contributor on two great teams.

Dion's the best shooting guard on this roster by a mile and a great fit for Blatt's offense in the starting lineup. He won't have to come off the bench for us to win, that's absurd and a clear indication you haven't watched a minute of Dion Waiters play basketball.
 
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Really? You've been here a month and you're making bullshit promises like that? We've never seen Dion play on a winning team in the NBA yet, I have no doubt he'll accept whatever role he's asked this year surrounded by a new coach and this much talent.

It's not like this is uncharted territory for Dion, he only started one game in his two seasons at Syracuse before he even got to the NBA. Despite sitting behind guys that never sniffed the NBA (no offense Brandon Triche, that's more for Scoop Jardine) Dion accepted his role off the bench and was still a major contributor on two great teams.

Dion's the best shooting guard on this roster by a mile and a great fit for Blatt's offense in the starting lineup. He won't have to come off the bench for us to win, that's absurd and a clear indication you haven't watched a minute of Dion Waiters play basketball.

Your homerism is making you focused on going at me instead of deciphering more on what I'm saying about Dion Waiters. You're preventing yourself from looking at basketball beyond the prism of scoring and athleticism, and because of that, you feel the need to say things like "I bet you never watched Dion play" or "you're new here so I'm gonna try to embarass you by pointing out you've only been here a month, and therefore, you can't know much about Dion Waiters".

Doing that sometimes will backfire on you, because...

1. I happen to live 35 minutes from Syracuse, NY and have been a life long Cuse fan. I support basically every player that has ever come out of Syracuse, from Derrick Coleman, to John Wallace, Gerry McNamara, Melo, Warrick, Wesley, MCW, Jardine (the only Cuse player I disliked), Triche and Waiters. With that being said, I've watched more of Waiters on T.V. and in person than you or anyone here ever will. I'm a student of basketball, so I enjoy watching every team play, not just the nationally televised ones. So with that, I've watched enough of Waiters as a Cavalier and at Cuse to qualify myself on any Waiters discussion on here.

2. I never said he wasn't gifted or wasn't athletic, etc. Just take off your homerism glasses for one minute and ask yourself why some of these coaches choose to bench Waiters? He's more athletic, jumps higher, runs faster, but for some reason...they don't want him to start on their team. Possibilities: Headcase, bad teammate, locker-room cancer, low bball IQ, no shot is a bad shot mentality. His negatives outweigh his positives to the point that coaches would rather start athletically challenged players over him. He has a terrible on and off the court attitude. He was a a hassle on campus as well.

3. Him being the "best SG" on this team isn't saying much when there is only one other legit SG for him to compete with. But back to your point, being a "better player" at a certain position does not mean the team is better with him as a starter. Anyone who has played team ball would know this. There is only one basketball, and there is a finite # of possessions in 48 minutes. Some are there to better stretch the floor, some are there to play shutdown D.
 
With that being said, I've watched more of Waiters on T.V. and in person than you or anyone here ever will.

We have other Syracuse fans on this board, so unless you watched him a lot in high school, your claim is exaggerated. Chill out dude.

I'd like to read more about the ESPN rankings in this thread and less about the RCF poster rankings. No need for the bickering (and this is not only directed to you).
 
We have other Syracuse fans on this board, so unless you watched him a lot in high school, your claim is exaggerated. Chill out dude.

I'd like to read more about the ESPN rankings in this thread and less about the RCF poster rankings. No need for the bickering (and this is not only directed to you).

In his defense, he was the one called out about having "never seen Waiters play." I hate when people say stuff like that.

Not really a Waiters guy but I gotta say I am possibly more intrigued to see him than anyone else on this team, believe it or not. I think it'd be awesome to bring him off the bench but we don't really have anyone to put at 2 in his place...
 
In his defense, he was the one called out about having "never seen Waiters play."

Agreed. I think it's time for posters to move on.
 
In his defense, he was the one called out about having "never seen Waiters play." I hate when people say stuff like that.

But, he is also the poster who claimed Waiters was "unwilling" to come off the bench. Something that is completely false. Feeling he should start is a lot different from not being willing to do anything but start.

He also claimed that Waiters thinks he is better then Lebron. Something that also seems rather unlikely considering how it has been reported that he's been following Mr James around like a puppy dog and soaking up anything and everything that Lebron tells him.

Oh, and I should mention that "being benched" and "coming off the bench" are entirely different things.
 
But, he is also the poster who claimed Waiters was "unwilling" to come off the bench. Something that is completely false. Feeling he should start is a lot different from not being willing to do anything but start.

He also claimed that Waiters thinks he is better then Lebron. Something that also seems rather unlikely considering how it has been reported that he's been following Mr James around like a puppy dog and soaking up anything and everything that Lebron tells him.

Oh, and I should mention that "being benched" and "coming off the bench" are entirely different things.

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NowWww RT @saudansari: @dionwaiters3 so would you be okay coming off bench until your time came then? Or is it now?

4:03 AM - 15 Jul 2014


Harden was but he proved he was better when the opportunity came RT @All_For_1_: @dionwaiters3 what you gon do of you have to tho

3:51 AM - 15 Jul 2014

http://fansided.com/2014/07/15/cleveland-cavaliers-rumors-dion-waiters-doesnt-want-come-bench/


Same attitude as he was in college. Let's end this Waiters talk. I want to see the rest of the ESPN rankings as well.
 
Your homerism is making you focused on going at me instead of deciphering more on what I'm saying about Dion Waiters. You're preventing yourself from looking at basketball beyond the prism of scoring and athleticism, and because of that, you feel the need to say things like "I bet you never watched Dion play" or "you're new here so I'm gonna try to embarass you by pointing out you've only been here a month, and therefore, you can't know much about Dion Waiters".

To be fair, it has nothing to do with your join date. There's been plenty of great new posters to join the site this summer, none last that make such boastful promises like they've watched more of Dion Waiters than anyone here. Make all the promises you like, it doesn't mean Dion won't accept being a role player this year.

Doing that sometimes will backfire on you, because...

1. I happen to live 35 minutes from Syracuse, NY and have been a life long Cuse fan. I support basically every player that has ever come out of Syracuse, from Derrick Coleman, to John Wallace, Gerry McNamara, Melo, Warrick, Wesley, MCW, Jardine (the only Cuse player I disliked), Triche and Waiters. With that being said, I've watched more of Waiters on T.V. and in person than you or anyone here ever will. I'm a student of basketball, so I enjoy watching every team play, not just the nationally televised ones. So with that, I've watched enough of Waiters as a Cavalier and at Cuse to qualify myself on any Waiters discussion on here.

Well, I guess we can share a dislike for Scoop Jardine... But a student of basketball? Come on, calling John Wall and Dion Waiters "addition by subtraction" players is ridiculous. Taking John Wall off the Wizards makes them better? That's so wrong I don't even know where to begin.

And despite Gilbert Arenas being a ballhog and a notorious gambler on D he was still a highly valuable NBA player, every single GM in the sport takes him over a D-Leaguer. That's just a silly argument, Arenas was so offensively talented in his prime he offset his defensive deficiencies. Washington went ten years before winning a playoff series before Arenas showed up, he wasn't some bum they couldn't win basketball games with.

2. I never said he wasn't gifted or wasn't athletic, etc. Just take off your homerism glasses for one minute and ask yourself why some of these coaches choose to bench Waiters? He's more athletic, jumps higher, runs faster, but for some reason...they don't want him to start on their team. Possibilities: Headcase, bad teammate, locker-room cancer, low bball IQ, no shot is a bad shot mentality. His negatives outweigh his positives to the point that coaches would rather start athletically challenged players over him. He has a terrible on and off the court attitude. He was a a hassle on campus as well.

3. Him being the "best SG" on this team isn't saying much when there is only one other legit SG for him to compete with. But back to your point, being a "better player" at a certain position does not mean the team is better with him as a starter. Anyone who has played team ball would know this. There is only one basketball, and there is a finite # of possessions in 48 minutes. Some are there to better stretch the floor, some are there to play shutdown D.

As I've and many others said regarding Dion, starting is completely overrated. Being on the court for crunch time is the more telling sign of what a coach thinks of a player, and Dion's been finishing games for us (and at Syracuse) for almost as long as he's been here.

Disagree on most of your possibilities as well, Dion hasn't started because he's been a lazy defender for as long as I've watched him. Playing in Cuse's 2-3 zone didn't help him develop the man-to-man defense that's needed at the pro level, and he's still constantly drifting in wrong directions and outside his necessary rotation. He's got the tools to be a plus defender at this level though, his quickness and upper body strength make him hard to get around when engaged.
 
I'd just like to say that I feel "LBJordan23" was setting us all up.. meaning, he knew his overly arrogant act (and calling dissenters 'homers') would get underneath the skin of alot of us and one of us would respond in the manner that Cosmo did.. and he had that dissertation armed and ready. He *knew* someone would come at him in that manner and had that post already written in his mind. If not literally. It feels extremely premeditated to me.

What has quickly become utterly nauseating around here is the flood (or maybe it's just a trickle, as I think it's only been a few posters.. just feels like more.) of front running fans that come to this board and start to preach to us as experts, having not watched this team the last 3-4 years. I feel that it's disrespectful, both to us as long suffering Cavs fans- and to this board, more specifically. A degree of respect is owed on both accounts, and coming around here guns blazing is not that. When I joined here, I took a good bit of time reading and learning the way of things here. A few of these newcomers have not done that at all. I'm trying REALLY hard to have patience for these new Cavs 'fans'.. but it's hard when they come in here with these attitudes.

As for the topic at hand, Waiters is our starting 2 guard. He appears to alot of us to have improved his shot a lot this offseason, and has the opportunity to become a near all star level player. He SHOULD expect to start, and to finish games. I like that about him. I fully expect a huge year out of Waiters... so, we shall see.
 

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