Farewell Kyle Korver

[TyGuy]

I think this is an overreaction.

Since JR's injury: 12-9 overall
Since Love's food poisoning and back injuries: 6-8 overall

We're just beat up right now. There's a breaking point from a depth perspective and we have hit it.

Cavs are in the toughest stretch of the season and are completely missing one of their 4-5 best players and have one of their big 3 battling injury / illness.

Korver is not the problem here. We've been average since JR's injury and below average since Love battled illness / back spasms.

By the same token he isn't the solution. The team still needs a physical wing defender after giving up one of our only expendable assets.

 

[TitleTown]

The second unit was actually good with LeBron, Dunleavy and Shump.

Ummmm...sure. Any lineup with a non-chill mode LBJ is good. That's not saying much. Put LBJ in Philly and they immediately become the best team in the East.

However, the fact of the matter is that we have not had a true 2nd unit nor a real 9-10 rotation at any point this season.

 

[TyGuy]

Ummmm...sure. Any lineup with a non-chill mode LBJ is good. That's not saying much. Put LBJ in Philly and they immediately become the best team in the East.

However, the fact of the matter is that we have not had a true 2nd unit nor a real 9-10 rotation at any point this season.

It's fine that you disagree, but a touch less douche would be nice. The numbers and I disagree with you. The LeBron, Dunleavy, Shump trio was +20 per 100 with Kyrie and Love on the bench. Shumpert being moved to the starting lineup as well as a downgrade in defense going from Dunleavy To Korver does hurt here more than people are letting on.

 

[TitleTown]

It's fine that you disagree, but a touch less douche would be nice. The numbers and I disagree with you. The LeBron, Dunleavy, Shump trio was +20 per 100 with Kyrie and Love on the bench. Shumpert being moved to the starting lineup as well as a downgrade in defense going from Dunleavy To Korver does hurt here more than people are letting on.

The numbers only agree if you entirely ignore my post--only if you totally ignore THE CONTEXT for the numbers.

Of course a LBJ + ??? bench is good. But that's hardly a bench if LBJ is carrying it. And LBJ has clearly STOPPED carrying the bench in order to make a point to the Cavs' front office. A point that I agree with. Don't blame Korver (or LBJ) for that. Your conclusions are wrong.

Is that douchey enough for you?

 

[TyGuy]

The numbers only agree if you entirely ignore my post--only if you totally ignore THE CONTEXT for the numbers.

Of course a LBJ + ??? bench is good. But that's hardly a bench if LBJ is carrying it. And LBJ has clearly STOPPED carrying the bench in order to make a point to the Cavs' front office. A point that I agree with. Don't blame Korver (or LBJ) for that. Your conclusions are wrong.

Is that douchey enough for you?

The LeBron, Korver, Jefferson, Frye crew with Love and Irving on the bench is -26 per 100. So clearly LeBron plus anybody isn't 100 % full proof. Oh, but LeBron completely stopped caring. Unless we have evidence for that then we can only go by the numbers. The bench lineup succeeded last year because it featured three good wing defenders. Our new bench lineup only has LeBron pulling weight on that end, or a guy that is completely inept on the other end (liggins).

Again, if you could tone down your douchiness and not just toss somebody's argument aside just because; then we can possibly get somewhere.

 

[TitleTown]

The LeBron, Korver, Jefferson, Frye crew with Love and Irving on the bench is -26 per 100. So clearly LeBron plus anybody isn't 100 % full proof. Oh, but LeBron completely stopped caring. Unless we have evidence for that then we can only go by the numbers. The bench lineup succeeded last year because it featured three good wing defenders. Our new bench lineup only has LeBron pulling weight on that end, or a guy that is completely inept on the other end (liggins).

Again, if you could tone down your douchiness and not just toss somebody's argument aside just because; then we can possibly get somewhere.

No thanks. If you think that numbers speak for themselves, without context or interpretation, then you'll keep getting this response from me.

Blaming Korver for our bench play is downright stupid.

 

[TyGuy]

This trade has been a disaster so far:team chemistry looks like crap and we lost trade assets. It's reflected in the hard reality that our win loss record has sucked since the move.

The trade didn't address a need and we gave up one of our only expendable assets.

 

[TyGuy]

No thanks. If you think that numbers speak for themselves, without context or interpretation, then you'll keep getting this response from me.

Blaming Korver for our bench play is downright stupid.

I didn't blame Korver for our bench. I said he didn't fill our need. I didn't expect him to come here and be a wing defender like we needed. That's my problem. It isn't with Korver, it's that we decided we needed to give up an asset for a guy that doesn't fill a need. Notice how i'm disagreeing and not being an ass? And also not saying I will continue to be an ass because we disagree?

 

[TitleTown]

I didn't blame Korver for our bench. I said he didn't fill our need. I didn't expect him to come here and be a wing defender like we needed. That's my problem. It isn't with Korver, it's that we decided we needed to give up an asset for a guy that doesn't fill a need. Notice how i'm disagreeing and not being an ass? And also not saying I will continue to be an ass because we disagree?

You were the first one to use name calling, not me. You called me a douche because I hurt your feelings with the rolling eyes emoji. So quit projecting your insecurities, bro.

Second of all, my main point still stands:

You are judging this trade too soon. IF, after the trade deadline our main needs are NOT met, then I'll eat crow. I always admit when I'm wrong. But at this point, you're complaining that the stew tastes bad when all the ingredients have yet to be thrown in the pot.

Grow up and be patient.

 

[TyGuy]

You were the first one to use name calling, not me. You called me a douche because I hurt your feelings with the rolling eyes emoji. So quit projecting your insecurities, bro.

Second of all, my main point still stands:

You are judging this trade too soon. IF, after the trade deadline our main needs are NOT met, then I'll eat crow. I always admit when I'm wrong. But at this point, you're complaining that the stew tastes bad when all the ingredients have yet to be thrown in the pot.

Grow up and be patient.

I commented on your behavior that isn't out of the norm when somebody disagrees with you. I don't understand why it's so hard to be cordial and disagree at the same time.

Is telling somebody to grow up suppose to be an endearing comment?Especially after you were just rude to that person? I actually agree with part of this post. I just don't see how we can address our needs when we just gave up one of our only assets for seemingly no reason at all.

Since you have proven incapable of disagreeing in a respectable matter; i'm afraid i'm going to have to add you to team ignore.

 

[Pioneer10]

TyGuy is absolutely right here IMO: we can blame the win/loss record on JR and Love (although we didn't seem to miss JR nearly as much before the move)

When you do the breakdown though it's been a pretty start difference not just last year but within this year alone where the bench led by Lebron went from a big plus for this team to a big minus. I'm not at all confident that when JR and Love hopefully get back healthy that a theoretical lineup of James, Frye, Korver, Jefferson, and Shumpert will do well.

 

[TitleTown]

I commented on your behavior that isn't out of the norm when somebody disagrees with you. I don't understand why it's so hard to be cordial and disagree at the same time.

Is telling somebody to grow up suppose to be an endearing comment?Especially after you were just rude to that person? I actually agree with part of this post. I just don't see how we can address our needs when we just gave up one of our only assets for seemingly no reason at all.

Since you have proven incapable of disagreeing in a respectable matter; i'm afraid i'm going to have to add you to team ignore.

What? Are you ignorant? You called me a douche, and you're blaming me for the tenor of this discussion? I'll happily accept your ignore, douche.

 

[TitleTown]

I commented on your behavior that isn't out of the norm when somebody disagrees with you. I don't understand why it's so hard to be cordial and disagree at the same time.

Is telling somebody to grow up suppose to be an endearing comment?Especially after you were just rude to that person? I actually agree with part of this post. I just don't see how we can address our needs when we just gave up one of our only assets for seemingly no reason at all.

Since you have proven incapable of disagreeing in a respectable matter; i'm afraid i'm going to have to add you to team ignore.

Also, if you think we gave up our "only" assets then you lack (1) creativity, and (2) any idea of what Griff has done with table scraps in the past.

 

[tocov]

The thing is bringing in Korver didn't answer any needs this team has. We don't need 3pt shooters with super limited skills.
We need a defensive wing and a defensive big. We traded for a piece we basically had no urgency of getting, and who doesn't show any improvement over the assets we lost.

 

[TitleTown]

The thing is bringing in Korver didn't answer any needs this team has. We don't need 3pt shooters with super limited skills.
We need a defensive wing and a defensive big. We traded for a piece we basically had no urgency of getting, and who doesn't show any improvement over the assets we lost.

I disagree with this, too. In a make or miss league, and when the playoffs slow down to a half-court grind, you can NEVER have enough shooters. Especially when one of those shooters is in the conversation for best shooter in the league.

Furthermore, there's no guarantee that JR will return to form, and given how CRUCIAL JR is to our team's makeup, Korver provides a partial insurance plan.

And finally, you can ONLY say this doesn't fill a need because you do not yet know the FINAL makeup of our roster. It could very well be that AFTER Griffin makes all of his moves, that Korver's role and necessity for this team will be more clearly defined.

So, like I said, you CANNOT judge this trade until after the trade deadline is finished.

EDIT: Also, another possibility: getting Korver could have been a defensive move. In that, it was between us and Spurs/Warriors trading for him, so we got him to keep our competition from getting better. Don't assume you have all of the facts to correctly judge this trade.