Game 22 -|- Cavs @ Magic -|- Dec. 13, 2013 @ 7 PM EST

[Fuggles]

Your stubborn insistence on sitting on Tristan's lap.....(shrugs)

someone is projecting...

 

[Rich]

Your stubborn insistence on sitting on Tristan's lap is blinding your ability to see what is pretty clear out there for this team. :chuckles:

Thompson hurts Bynum, as he does any center who doesnt operate from 15 feet out.

Bynum never got going because Tristan was afraid to shoot from 15-18ft even though the defense allowed him to. By allowing him to (Millsap ATL, Bass Boston, Davis tonight) his defender is able to double off of him and not only shade to Kyrie to close his driving lanes, but also dig down on Bynum the minute he starts working on his man and making his basketball move as a post player.

If you just want to hate on Bennett, than start Clark. Did you see Clark tonight? Do you know WHY Clark had 3 open 3pointers when he first checked in?

I'll tell you, because Jacques Vaughn had not yet adjusted his defense to make his 4 man go back to playing honest defense. After Clark burned his ass a few times, Vaughn adjusted then, but as soon as Tristan came back in (with Bynum to end half) they adjusted again and went right back to roaming off TT whenever TT was in high post.

This is pretty easy to see. Just as easy to see as it was that Waiters and Irving needed to be staggered so both could play PG to start their times in the game.

If this current team stays healthy and intact (big IF with Bynum and Andy's health), starting a floor stretching PF in this lineup would make them the 3rd best team in this years Eastern Conference. (shrugs)

Speaking of easy to see, it's pretty easy to see Anthony Bennett shouldn't be starting for anyone anytime soon.

I didn't see this game, but there is so little reasonable argument to be had when it concerns Bennett starting. You don't start dudes that have been this damn bad unless you have no choice (Alonzo Gee). Not gonna argue it much.

And something needs to be said. But you go into threads and complain about how everyone tries to make it a "This guy vs. that guy" thing, but you do it as much as anyone. Timid Tristan. Sitting on Tristans lap. You can go ahead and say you don't hate on Tristan, but you do.

Difference is, I admit I hate on Bennett. Fortunately, I'm backed up by Bennett's play.

The funny thing is, I'm not even arguing that Thompson is the future or an All-star. If we had a better option, then great. I'm all for improving this team. Anthony Bennett, unfortunately for everyone who loves the Cavaliers, is not a better option.

And I really don't want to argue this. I like you. I think you have plenty of insightful posts. I like Thompson. You like Bennett. Thompson is going to continue to start for the foreseeable future and rehashing the same arguments over and over won't change that.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Speaking of easy to see, it's pretty easy to see Anthony Bennett shouldn't be starting for anyone anytime soon.

I didn't see this game, but there is so little reasonable argument to be had when it concerns Bennett starting. You don't start dudes that have been this damn bad unless you have no choice (Alonzo Gee). Not gonna argue it much.

And something needs to be said. But you go into threads and complain about how everyone tries to make it a "This guy vs. that guy" thing, but you do it as much as anyone. Timid Tristan. Sitting on Tristans lap. You can go ahead and say you don't hate on Tristan, but you do.

Difference is, I admit I hate on Bennett. Fortunately, I'm backed up by Bennett's play.

The funny thing is, I'm not even arguing that Thompson is the future or an All-star. If we had a better option, then great. I'm all for improving this team. Anthony Bennett, unfortunately for everyone who loves the Cavaliers, is not a better option.

I actually watched the game.

That makes all the difference in the world.

Try it, you would see the same thing and you would agree that whether its Clark or Bennett, there needs to be a floor spacing 4 as opposed to Tristan.

I am calling him Timid because he HAS been Timid. I am calling Dion Ayeee because he DOES say Ayeee every time he goes to the whole. I appreciate Tristans game, but I love my team more than any one player. And what the team needs most is a floor spacer at the 4.

(shrugs)

The "on Tristans lap" piece was a jokey joke.

Unless you really have a thing for him :chuckles:

 

[Rich]

I actually watched the game.

That makes all the difference in the world.

Try it, you would see the same thing and you would agree that whether its Clark or Bennett, there needs to be a floor spacing 4 as opposed to Tristan.

I am calling him Timid because he HAS been Timid. I am calling Dion Ayeee because he DOES say Ayeee every time he goes to the whole. I appreciate Tristans game, but I love my team more than any one player. And what the team needs most is a floor spacer at the 4.

(shrugs)

The "on Tristans lap" piece was a jokey joke.

Unless you really have a thing for him :chuckles:

Couldn't resist could you?

Missed the game for various reason. Catch the vast majority of them.

The problem is you act like spacing the floor is the only aspect of basketball that is important. What about all of the other things that Tristan excels at that Bennett doesn't? We become a weaker team defensively. We become a shorter team. We become a weaker rebounding team. Do these not matter?

And as for spacing the floor, you actually have to, you know, make shots. Who the hell is going to respect Anthony Bennett shooting jumpers at this point?

And I'm looking at the play-by-play and I see we were losing the entire game, until the 8 minute mark, when Thompson came back in and played along side of Varejao. Not Bennett spacing the floor. Not Earl Clark either. From that point on, we dominated. Now I do not understand how it can work for the final 8 minutes of the fourth, when the game is on the line, but not the 1st 8 minutes of the 1st.

 

[MD13]

Does anyone know how I can upload a picture directly to RCF? I turned on LP again and chose a random possession where TT is at the top of the key, and it shows the major spacing problems on the court when you have both TT and Gee playing. It's difficult to downright impossible for Bynum to play in the post with those two together sometimes.

 

[Rich]

Does anyone know how I can upload a picture directly to RCF? I turned on LP again and chose a random possession where TT is at the top of the key, and it shows the major spacing problems on the court when you have both TT and Gee playing. It's difficult to downright impossible for Bynum to play in the post with those two together sometimes.

Do you actually have the picture? If so, it's easy. As for actually taking a picture off of a video, that I can't tell you.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Does anyone know how I can upload a picture directly to RCF? I turned on LP again and chose a random possession where TT is at the top of the key, and it shows the major spacing problems on the court when you have both TT and Gee playing. It's difficult to downright impossible for Bynum to play in the post with those two together sometimes.

I was doing the same thing making screen caps. I'll let you do it so I can take my wife to Cheesecake Factory instead.

Rich, you know its not personal. I know you usually watch the games bro. I'm busting your chops mostly.

But seriously, you HAVE to see how Tristan shrinks the floor for everyone by not being respected on offense. You HAVE TO SEE IT.

Waiters was the difference in this game, but he doesnt become the difference if he didnt have the floor spacing to get going when he caught fire in the 2nd half. Simple as that. He went "Ball Hard D Waiters" and it was momentum that helped us build like a 11 point lead. Up until that point, Kyrie being Kyrie was what kept the game close because our starting offense had NOTHING going for themselves while Tristan and Gee were making it a 3 on 5 game.

 

[wuck]

Does anyone know how I can upload a picture directly to RCF?

Uploading directly to RCF is never consistent. Best to grab the image, upload to imgur (or something like that) and then linking from RCF using the IMG code before and /IMG after.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

If I have time tomorrow, I'll make screenshots of the Atlanta game, the Boston game as well as this one.

In Atlanta, Budenholzer who is a smart effing coach, took Millsap off of Tristan every possession where Tristan was in the high post and used Millsap to shade towards Kyrie when he had the ball or double on Bynum when he had the ball. Also, if Bynum was too deep for Millsap to get there, he would have the next man rotate over so the help was there quicker than Bynum could score and then Millsap was responsible for the help man's cover rotationally.

Same thing for Boston with Stevens. Same thing for tonight with Davis/Nicholson. Simply dont have to respect Tristan because he plays too timidly from 15 ft out and he isnt decisive enough to make them pay by attacking when he does catch the ball.

It sucks that he has totally abandoned whatever mojo was helping him hit that 15 foot shot earlier. He tried it tonight and it looked as bad as the one he tried and lucked up hitting in Atlanta early. THen the next possession when he shot it again both in Atlanta and tonight, it looked like he threw a cinder block at the general direction of the rim and he never attempted again.

For our sake, he HAS to keep attempting and convert just a few to keep the defense honest. If he cant do that, we need another starter.

I'll take pics tomorrow. Its pretty glaring now.

 

[MD13]

Ok, here we go. Check out the triple team on Bynum (Afflalo helping off Gee, Davis sinking into the paint a good 6 feet off Thompson while he has an open 18 footer at the top of the key) while Thompson gets the ball at the top of the key. He dribbled in to the still frame I imaged, then passed the ball back out to Kyrie. If TT could just hit that jumper we'd be in for a ton of high-low plays where Bynum could flash to the rim and TT could make the shot if his defender sinks in or lob it to Bynum for an easy bucket. Keep in mind I just fast forwarded it to the first possession I found where TT touches it at the top of the key. This seems to happen multiple times in every game I watch.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Great grab Howler! Yep, that is what I am talking about and it happens quite often for the starters while they try to get Bynum established early. In turn, it affects the entire starting lineup's ability to get going.

I see a semblance of an offense consistently now, and it calls for that high low you see right there. ALSO, it calls for Kyrie to attack in transition every time we have numbers and off turnovers. But in the halfcourt, like pictured, it is absolutely imperative that the 4 man keep the defense honest.

For both Bynum and Kyrie's sake.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

When I was playing we would call what is happening to Tristan in that picture... Self-check.

If you had a Self-Check on the court, than the other 4 guys were much easier to guard. Basketball is so fluid possession to possession that a few self-checks (4 on 5's in half court) can make or break the momentum of a team and decide a game.

 

[MD13]

Great grab Howler! Yep, that is what I am talking about and it happens quite often for the starters while they try to get Bynum established early. In turn, it affects the entire starting lineup's ability to get going.

I see a semblance of an offense consistently now, and it calls for that high low you see right there. ALSO, it calls for Kyrie to attack in transition every time we have numbers and off turnovers. But in the halfcourt, like pictured, it is absolutely imperative that the 4 man keep the defense honest.

For both Bynum and Kyrie's sake.

To be fair, the high-low still wouldn't work with Ryan Anderson handling the ball there if Afflalo is still cheating into the paint as far as he is. Having Gee and TT on the floor together really restricts our spacing, no matter what else they bring to the table (I'm not arguing that).

 

[Rich]

I was doing the same thing making screen caps. I'll let you do it so I can take my wife to Cheesecake Factory instead.

Rich, you know its not personal. I know you usually watch the games bro. I'm busting your chops mostly.

But seriously, you HAVE to see how Tristan shrinks the floor for everyone by not being respected on offense. You HAVE TO SEE IT.

Waiters was the difference in this game, but he doesnt become the difference if he didnt have the floor spacing to get going when he caught fire in the 2nd half. Simple as that. He went "Ball Hard D Waiters" and it was momentum that helped us build like a 11 point lead. Up until that point, Kyrie being Kyrie was what kept the game close because our starting offense had NOTHING going for themselves while Tristan and Gee were making it a 3 on 5 game.

I do see that he shrinks the floor. Everyone sees it.

I just don't think it's a big enough problem to then throw away almost everything else for a guy who can give them that ONE thing. Bennett starts playing better, then I'm all for it. But right now, for the sole sake of floor spacing, I just don't think it's a wise move.

And I wish our coaches would get in his ear and just start telling him to trust the shot. He seems like the type of guy who is terrified of making the wrong play, so much so that even when it's the right play, he'd rather play it safe.

Now, I'll take that over some goof like Nick Young, who doesn't give a shit about the right play ever, but he needs more confidence, and I have no idea why he lost it in the first place.

That said, the screen cap howler took looks bad to begin with. He's got two guys behind him, Kyrie and Miles, effectively eliminating two offensive players from the play, One of them, preferably Kyrie, needs to be heading down the corner and I have no idea why Gee is taking a step in-wards right at that point.

Of course, it's only one cap so maybe gee was about to run the base-line and Miles was gonna head to his corner. Dunno.

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

I do see that he shrinks the floor. Everyone sees it.

I just don't think it's a big enough problem to then throw away almost everything else for a guy who can give them that ONE thing. Bennett starts playing better, then I'm all for it. But right now, for the sole sake of floor spacing, I just don't think it's a wise move.

And I wish our coaches would get in his ear and just start telling him to trust the shot. He seems like the type of guy who is terrified of making the wrong play, so much so that even when it's the right play, he'd rather play it safe.

Now, I'll take that over some goof like Nick Young, who doesn't give a shit about the right play ever, but he needs more confidence, and I have no idea why he lost it in the first place.

That said, the screen cap howler took looks bad to begin with. He's got two guys behind him, Kyrie and Miles, effectively eliminating two offensive players from the play, One of them, preferably Kyrie, needs to be heading down the corner and I have no idea why Gee is taking a step in-wards right at that point.

Of course, it's only one cap so maybe gee was about to run the base-line and Miles was gonna head to his corner. Dunno.

Yeah, Kyrie and Miles were both coming to give Tristan his outlet that he needed because there was no way in hell he was shooting that shot despite having it wide open. :chuckles:

But like Howler said, and you made mention of, Gee's man has to be kept honest as well. And Gee is not doing that consistently. Though he did take a few drives and a few jumpers in this game where Orlando cheated too much. He just doesnt scare a D. He also did pretty well in the NY game when they cheated off of him IIRC.

To your other point, you have to understand what it means to a guys mindset to have a committed role and how that affects his game. I am confident that a big part of why Bennett has looked bad in every facet of his game outside of defending the post like Chuck Hayes, is because he keeps getting miscast and pressing when he is afraid of getting yanked by Brown.

You commit to him playing whenever Bynum is playing and I promise you will see a guy who starts playing on instinct and not afraid to exert himself in other ways on the court. Would he be a stat sheet intangible stuffer like Tristan can be some nights? Not sure, possibly. One thing we know for sure is he will spread the floor better. Those nights where we need intangibles more than floor spacing, you have Tristan and Andy BOTH ready to be plugged in at moments notice and hustle never depreciates in any role.