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Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST]

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Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

We have got to figure out these road problems. Just a totally different team. If were at home, we can play with anyone. On the road, we cant compete.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

We have got to figure out these road problems. Just a totally different team. If were at home, we can play with anyone. On the road, we cant compete.

I don't even think its a road problem anymore. We got up just fine in Miami.

It has been, and continues to be, a problem of playing to the level of the team.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Just realized the Bulls haven't hit 100 points in 3 weeks.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

I don't even think its a road problem anymore. We got up just fine in Miami.

It has been, and continues to be, a problem of playing to the level of the team.

Just a head scratcher... they get up and play well against Portland and Miami, they beat a streaking Nuggets team, but they've lost to the Bucks and Bulls, and barely squeaked out wins at home against them when they were majorly depleted by injuries.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Didn't watch the game yet, but looking at the box score and not seeing Dion's name tells me all I need to know. Kid is our heart and soul.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Didn't watch the game yet, but looking at the box score and not seeing Dion's name tells me all I need to know. Kid is our heart and soul.

That's definitely it.

We are 2-2 when he doesn't play, and 8-14 when he does. Both shitty.

The way some of you talk about Dion's contribution to the team you'd think we're a 60 win team competing for championships.

Dion or not the problems with this team are so much bigger than 1 guy.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

That's definitely it.

We are 2-2 when he doesn't play, and 8-14 when he does. Both shitty.

The way some of you talk about Dion's contribution to the team you'd think we're a 60 win team competing for championships.

Dion or not the problems with this team are so much bigger than 1 guy.

Our biggest problem personnel wise, imho, is our non athletic/non shooting bigs.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Michael Brown (pours him a drink) sit down and rap with me for a minute man.

The NBA is a open floor, dynamic EUROPEAN style of game now. They didnt fire you in LA just because they didnt like you, they fired you because it was obvious you were stubbornly holding onto a coaching philosophy despite having a roster that needed you to adapt your style to fit those hall of famers skillsets, offense and defense.

Teams who have embraced the new open European style of game have the capability of exposing our starters for their lack of floor spacing, and those nights where that the rotation is thrown in flux (foul trouble, injury) along with the style of play favoring teams who can space the floor better than our starters, we lose.

Nights where teams are not constructed to expose our spacing issues as much, usually relying on bigs who cant space the floor, we can hang and beat most teams at the 2005 Spurs style of basketball.

Three things need to happen...

1. We need to commit to a floor spacer with our starters at the 4 spot. Clark or Bennett. Preferably Bennett. Leaving Clark to be paired with either Andy OR Tristan in spacing the floor when Brown plays reserves for stretches.

2. We need to upgrade SF. Badly. Watching Tony Snell play and continue developing under Thibs makes my stomach double over with your reluctance to play rookies like Karasev and Bennett. SMH... Larry Brown is out of the pros for his reluctance to play kids. Popovich has relied on kids heavily in the last 3 years to reduce veterans minutes and bring the kids along. Wake up Mike. This isnt 2005 anymore man.

3. The hard hedge needs to be used more "sparingly" or once you see a offense adjust to it, you need to pull it off and put it back on when they are not ready for it again. Let's call this "hard hedge shock treatment". In small doses, it can be effective. 4-5 possesions in a row, or just depending on the oppositions lineup. But you cant do this all game and expect these offenses not to adjust and attack it. European teams eat that up, and since the league is trending towards that European model for the appeal and high scoring it provides, your defense is something of a relic that needs to be modernized for the current game. One of your guys will always be out of position and it calls for length and agility from 4 positions in order to not compromise the defense and give up open jump shots from good passing teams. Atlanta, San Antonio, Boston, Portland, Chicago tonight... they all exposed this defense following the same model that Stan Van Gundy showed the league would take the fangs out of it.

Your move. Time to adjust your defensive scheme. You cant go out each night and hope that the opposition would be undisciplined and impatient/selfish with the ball. Good coaches are now coaching their teams to pass to beat this defense. This is not on our players not executing. It is a result of your system not fitting the players. Until you get your hands on the length and agility you are used to having to run this defense and not compromise it, you have to bring it out in doses if you want to show the players it can be effective and aggressive (in spurts).
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Michael Brown (pours him a drink) sit down and rap with me for a minute man.

The NBA is a open floor, dynamic EUROPEAN style of game now. They didnt fire you in LA just because they didnt like you, they fired you because it was obvious you were stubbornly holding onto a coaching philosophy despite having a roster that needed you to adapt your style to fit those hall of famers skillsets, offense and defense.

Teams who have embraced the new open European style of game have the capability of exposing our starters for their lack of floor spacing, and those nights where that the rotation is thrown in flux (foul trouble, injury) along with the style of play favoring teams who can space the floor better than our starters, we lose.

Nights where teams are not constructed to expose our spacing issues as much, usually relying on bigs who cant space the floor, we can hang and beat most teams at the 2005 Spurs style of basketball.

Three things need to happen...

1. We need to commit to a floor spacer with our starters at the 4 spot. Clark or Bennett. Preferably Bennett. Leaving Clark to be paired with either Andy OR Tristan in spacing the floor when Brown plays reserves for stretches.

2. We need to upgrade SF. Badly. Watching Tony Snell play and continue developing under Thibs makes my stomach double over with your reluctance to play rookies like Karasev and Bennett. SMH... Larry Brown is out of the pros for his reluctance to play kids. Popovich has relied on kids heavily in the last 3 years to reduce veterans minutes and bring the kids along. Wake up Mike. This isnt 2005 anymore man.

3. The hard hedge needs to be used more "sparingly" or once you see a offense adjust to it, you need to pull it off and put it back on when they are not ready for it again. Let's call this "hard hedge shock treatment". In small doses, it can be effective. 4-5 possesions in a row, or just depending on the oppositions lineup. But you cant do this all game and expect these offenses not to adjust and attack it. European teams eat that up, and since the league is trending towards that European model for the appeal and high scoring it provides, your defense is something of a relic that needs to be modernized for the current game. One of your guys will always be out of position and it calls for length and agility from 4 positions in order to not compromise the defense and give up open jump shots from good passing teams. Atlanta, San Antonio, Boston, Portland, Chicago tonight... they all exposed this defense following the same model that Stan Van Gundy showed the league would take the fangs out of it.

Your move. Time to adjust your defensive scheme. You cant go out each night and hope that the opposition would be undisciplined and impatient/selfish with the ball. Good coaches are now coaching their teams to pass to beat this defense. This is not on our players not executing. It is a result of your system not fitting the players. Until you get your hands on the length and agility you are used to having to run this defense and not compromise it, you have to bring it out in doses if you want to show the players it can be effective and aggressive (in spurts).

Wow what a spot on and absolutely terrifying post. Well done.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Im with you on Mike Browns defensive scheme and how it fits with this roster. No need to rehash it. Spot on. But Im gonna diverge on the SF point. I dont blame Mike fir not playing guys he doesnt feel are ready to handle it. This is on Grant. Three years weve trotted out the worst strting SF in the league. At some point the "we tried to fix it" excuse loses its punch. Three years, Chris. Three years is long enough to have found someone better than Gee. Im not even sure Gee belongs in the league, let alone starting. At this point I say remove him fron the rotation and just play the 3 guard lineup exclusively. Start Delly and slide Miles over and go from there.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Spacing is the least of the Cavs problems at the moment. its all a bit of nice rhetoric and sound basketball philosophy but does it really apply.

Is a guy passing to the perimeter when their star point guard is open off the ball under the paint a spacing problem?

Is a guy playing soft on the perimeter when they are supposed to have a body on the guy a fundamental defensive scheme issue?

if the schemes are so antiquated and the cause of the problem.. why doesnt it not show up at home. do the Cavs just play two different schemes at home and on the road? I dont think so.

If The Cavs had spacing issues why are they missing so many wide open shots to go 40% over the past through games.


First the problem on the road was that rascally Waiters cause he didnt "fit". Out goes Waiters and we continue to see the same problems on the offensive end on the road. After the bigs convert and spacing is there. On the defensive end the starting unit has gotten even worse on the road without Dion.

Yet as a starter the guy knocked down 20+ in 45% of the 8 games he started a clip a he continued when placed from the bench but his increase in productive attributed to coming off the bench. Was it that? or was it because he continued to take his self admitted bad habits out of his game like "falling back" on his jump shot.

All the bgs last night converted on mid range jump shots.. the alleged key to "spacing" yet the team continued to struggle. Their defensive effort was inconsistent.

you really think a 6/1 guy driving through the mddle of the paint against 4 guys who just stood watching for an uncontested layup was a schematic issue?

Bynum and Thompson combined for 16 points in the first quarter halve of those baskets from range. Was that the problem or was it that Thompson couldnt guard both Boozer and noah at the same time and Bynum was often out of position or was it a matter of Guards not blocking out the passing lanes allowing the bulls to play their style of basketball.

There was no consistent pushing of the ball. There was no consistent pressure on the defensive effort. These are things the Cavs give at home but not on the road.

It would be nice if some of post on here actually reflected on the game not taking a poor performance to advance a preconceived notion that really didnt apply.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Torn, I dont dispute a lot of what you said. But I do think showing hard on EVERY ball screen is antiquated and not a sound defensive strategy anymore.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Defensive efficiency net.
Cavs shooting guards defensively are 7th eff net at home 27th on the road.
Cavs PG position is 22nd on the road . 19th at home in deff
Cavs SF is 26th at home and 30th on the road.
Cavs PF are 30th at home. 27th on the road.
Cavs Center position is number 1 at home 26th on the road.

The Backcourt as a whole is 25th on the road. 13th at home
The Froncourt as a whole is 23rd at home .30th on the road.

In the paint 30th on the road. 16th at home.
out of the paint 18th at home. 29th on the road.

the starters are 30th on the road. 26th at home

the bench is 5th on the road 5th at home.


Im looking more at change in rankings than how sucky some of the rankings are to begin with.

Its clear though the Bench comes in and plays at minimal drop off on the road as they do at home.

so whose setting the tone for these games? its the starters. beginning with the Center position and the shooting guard.

the starters dont play well together anyways that 4 place drop from 26th to 30th is a 12.3 to 46 efficiency difference.

Mind numbingly drop. to be at the end of the pack and then get on the road and and play almost twice as bad as the 29th ranked team.

46 efficiency differnce compared to the 29th placed lakers at 21 efficiency,

even if you dont understand the numbers the chasm between the two should be quite clear.

the funniest part is for all the grief the guy gets. Tristan is the only quantified "road" warrior in the starting lineup.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Torn... there is a disconnect between your optimism and the reality of the NBA landscape we are playing in this season and how it pertains to where we should be as a team that is actively TRYING to win games and establish an identity. Show me the stat for percentage of teams we are playing against who are actively tanking and sub .500 VS the teams who are contending? Or the stat for front offices who cringe seeing us on the schedule knowing their coach by sheer ability to make in game adjustments, will have a punches chance against Mike Brown no matter how many guys he puts on the injury list for that night (Chicago had about 7 of them, 5 rotational, if you were wondering).

I dont need stats when the game is playing out in front of my eyes. There is NBA League Pass Broadband with archiveable games for this.

Defensive efficiency net average for a season means shit when an offense figures out how to exploit a defense DURING THE COURSE OF ONE GAME. Half the teams we have played have NO incentive to even try to win most nights. Chicago, honestly, is one of them. Stacey King sounded disappointed that we did not adjust our defense and shut down the great DJ Augustine and Tony Snell last night, you know why? Cause he wants Jabari Parker playing at home next to a healthy D. Rose and Joakim Noah next season. Mike Brown said screw that, take this win and enjoy it Chicago.

But by all means, tell me where our backcourt and bench efficiency ranks amongst 30 teams when 22 of them are actively trying to lose games every night and even then, we are losing games to them and their patchwork rotations.
 
Re: Game 26: Cleveland Cavaliers @ Chicago Bulls | December 21st, 2013 | 8:00 PM [EST

Need moar dion
 

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