Game 36 | Cavs @ Utah | Friday January 10, 2014 9:00 PM EST

[JFT]

As someone here would say....Mooooooo

Your point is totally unfounded as it pertains to me, try again. I've said plenty of nice things about TT, go look back at my posts from his rookie year-- I was captain of his bandwagon when nobody else believed. Go ahead, look.

He hasn't developed into the PF we need, which at the time I thought he could. Not a big deal, he does some nice things, but when our outside shots aren't falling or he's matched up with a bigger opponent, he's not having games like this. He was incredibly average the past three games and equally inconsistent throughout the year. Just because he gets some extra points on open dunks off dump-off's, I'm not gonna anoint him a starter, or an all-star, or whatever you guys wanna call him. More times than not, he's clogging the lane and disrupting our flow on offense with his indecisiveness.

This has nothing to due with Bennett, good try, though.

 

[Lionheart]

 

[Tornicade]

Your point is totally unfounded as it pertains to me, try again. I've said plenty of nice things about TT, go look back at my posts from his rookie year-- I was captain of his bandwagon when nobody else believed. Go ahead, look.

He hasn't developed into the PF we need, which at the time I thought he could. Not a big deal, he does some nice things, but when our outside shots aren't falling or he's matched up with a bigger opponent, he's not having games like this. He was incredibly average the past three games and equally inconsistent throughout the year. Just because he gets some extra points on open dunks off dump-off's, I'm not gonna anoint him a starter, or an all-star, or whatever you guys wanna call him. More times than not, he's clogging the lane and disrupting our flow on offense with his indecisiveness.

This has nothing to due with Bennett, good try, though.

not the pf we need,The Cavs need or you need?

 

[Rich]

not the pf we need,The Cavs need or you need?

That's pretty spot on.

If someone can find me a power forward who can really stretch the floor, rebound at a high rate, and defend at an above average level, I'd love to have him. I don't really see that guy available.

 

[BimboColesHair]

Can we give Tristan more than 1 off season and 36 games after changing shooting hands to say he will never take jumpers? You have to think he comes back next season, after another off season working on it, and shoots it more frequently as he gets more comfortable with it. His dribble drive game for a PF is already very good, he can finish with both hands, he is finishing in traffic more than he ever has so far in his career, his lateral quickness on pick and roll defense is something we could have used in the LBJ era and makes MB wet, he rebounds at an elite clip on the offensive side of the ball, he is a good 1 on 1 post defender already, he's starting to pass the ball out of the post more often (remember when he had like 3 assists his rookie year?)...but hey, lets focus on how he doesn't take enough jump shots less than 1 year after switching shooting hands.

edit: lets also add, less than a year after changing shooting hands, he has upped his FT% from 60.8% to 67.1%...usually a good sign for further jumper development...this is a guy people thought would never see the 60%s from the line in the 1st place

 

[blazenmp]

Like Brown says, we have to remember that we can win games if our shots are not falling by doing all the other little things on the court. Set good picks, crash the boards, drive and dish, get random tap-backs on rebounds, double at the right moment.....

But this is so much the part that scares me the most. Brown talks to us, but does he actually take the time to teach the non-veterans, or does he only leave it up to the veterans? It's one thing if you are Pops with the SA spurs, their veterans are more solid with the team than any other, but CLE? No, I don't think so... sometimes you have to realize that you aren't Pops and you aren't coaching the Spurs...

 

[Scholar]

That's pretty spot on.

If someone can find me a power forward who can really stretch the floor, rebound at a high rate, and defend at an above average level, I'd love to have him. I don't really see that guy available.

While they are finding that guy, can we also get him on a rookie contract as well?

 

[czvo]

That's pretty spot on.

If someone can find me a power forward who can really stretch the floor, rebound at a high rate, and defend at an above average level, I'd love to have him. I don't really see that guy available.

Here's an honest question: Does (above-average) defense matter for a Power Forward? Seriously, think about it. As long as your team has a smart, solid defensive center, it basically renders your PF's defense moot. Chicago has won a ton of games with an average, at best, defender in Boozer because they have Noah. The Warriors are winning with Lee because of Bogut. The Rockets with Jones because of Howard. The Mavs won a title with an historically average defensive PF (albeit transcendent offensively) in Nowitzki because of Tyson Chandler.

Seems to me that if you can find a good rim-protecting, defensive center, it more or less renders your PF's defensive ability moot.

 

[czvo]

But this is so much the part that scares me the most. Brown talks to us, but does he actually take the time to teach the non-veterans, or does he only leave it up to the veterans? It's one thing if you are Pops with the SA spurs, their veterans are more solid with the team than any other, but CLE? No, I don't think so... sometimes you have to realize that you aren't Pops and you aren't coaching the Spurs...

Are you in some way implying that Brown doesn't harp on "the little things" to his players?

 

[RchfldCavRaised]

Here's an honest question: Does (above-average) defense matter for a Power Forward? Seriously, think about it. As long as your team has a smart, solid defensive center, it basically renders your PF's defense moot. Chicago has won a ton of games with an average, at best, defender in Boozer because they have Noah. The Warriors are winning with Lee because of Bogut. The Rockets with Jones because of Howard. The Mavs won a title with an historically average defensive PF (albeit transcendent offensively) in Nowitzki because of Tyson Chandler.

Seems to me that if you can find a good rim-protecting, defensive center, it more or less renders your PF's defensive ability moot.

Stop making sense.

That would mean that instead of finding a scoring, floor spacing, faceup PF (which are in free agency every offseason) we would need to find a very talented, floor spacing, highIQ center (which never make it to FA) who can also give us a defensive above the rim presence, since our defensive PF cant...

One guy in the league can do that currently, and that is why the RCF vets are humping Marc Gasol's leg like horny puppies.

I like Tristan, but he's a 6'9 center and he clogs the paint while not being a threat or commanding a double team on offense. Would love him much more as a asset on the team, if he were in a more suitable reserve role. He'd be a game changer in that role. Just like Dion is now.

LOVE Dion as 6th man.

 

[Tornicade]

pf and center on this team in case noone noticed. does the exact same thing only one plays the low post and one plays the high post. both take turns at the top of the key. you eed physical play from the big men and that happens under the basket.

there are really only about 3 starting power forward in the nba who really stretch the floor and ill name them

Larmarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love and Dirk Nowitzki can shoot the three 3 or 4 times a game

Mid range shooters 5+ attempts per game
Blake Griffin, Carlos Boozer, Tim duncan, Kris Humphries ( barely a starter) David West

mid range shooters 3-4 attempts a game
Garnett, Zach Randolph, Brandon Bass, ilyasova, Nicholson , Paul Milsap,

Thats It.


Tristan is now attempting mid range shots twice a game.. and he is doing it efficiently enough that its only a matter of time before he is more comfortable taking it more.

Defensively you need a forward who can close the gaps when you do face these teams with big men with range because you also have your small forward such lebron james and Carmelo anthony playing the 4.

Meanwhile AV , Zeller and Bynum when he was here are active centers for the cavs taking midrange shots at over a 45% clip 3 or more times a game

These are typically assist. its pretty clear the Cavs are having their big men take these shots by design and that design doesnt require Tristan Thompson to be a scoring threat outside of 19 feet.

 

[DatDudeZ3]

Really everyone who played tonight played well, minus Clark of course. Kyrie is getting better and better at learning how to control the game and facilitate offense. I really loved the fast break where Kyrie slowed up and allowed Deng to get to the corner mid-range spot, then drew Deng's man to himself, then dished it to Deng for an easy 15 foot jumper. Also it's great to see Dion wear Kyrie's shoes, I think that argument and bad chemistry shit was blown up by the media (Jack was wearing Kyrie's in the first half, then changed to KD's shoes in the 2nd half... FYI). Loved the way this team has played the last few games... I pray they keep playing like this.

Also, Jack played a hell of a game... I think he will be very good for us down the stretch. It was also great to see Deng look like he was having fun and clicking with his teammates after only being here 2 days. It seems he has instantly helped our chemistry and brought more veteran leadership we need. Can't wait for the game against the Kings on Sunday to see if we can repeat this performance again on the road... We know we have talent and a chance to be good, but we to do it consistently. It will be interesting to see if we keep it up.

 

[Rich]

Here's an honest question: Does (above-average) defense matter for a Power Forward? Seriously, think about it. As long as your team has a smart, solid defensive center, it basically renders your PF's defense moot. Chicago has won a ton of games with an average, at best, defender in Boozer because they have Noah. The Warriors are winning with Lee because of Bogut. The Rockets with Jones because of Howard. The Mavs won a title with an historically average defensive PF (albeit transcendent offensively) in Nowitzki because of Tyson Chandler.

Seems to me that if you can find a good rim-protecting, defensive center, it more or less renders your PF's defensive ability moot.

Are there not examples that go both ways? Who is the big time rim protector Miami runs out there for 30 minutes a night?

What about OKC? Perkins hinders that team, he doesn't help it.

And some of these centers, guys like Howard an Noah, these aren't defense only, do nothing but block shots players. It's like, the Rockets are winning because Dwight HOward covers for Jones...but also because Dwight Howard is just a really good all-around player. That's not, say, Larry Sanders or Omer Asik.

And really the argument isn't over getting a guy like Boozer or Nowitzki and starting him over Thompson. If we could find that guy, do it. But it seems to me people just want someone, any old awful player to start at the 4, just because he can maybe hit a jump shot. I know of a certain someone who was advocating starting Earl Clark over Thompson earlier in the season. That's dumb. You don't totally ignore every other facet of the game just because a guy can hit an open jumper at a slightly higher rate.

There is this mentality that if you get a guy who can block shots and a guy who can shoot 3s, then yay, you win games. And if you don't get those two things, then you're front-court won't work and you won't win. So simplistic.

 

[davedugan43]

That's pretty spot on.

If someone can find me a power forward who can really stretch the floor, rebound at a high rate, and defend at an above average level, I'd love to have him. I don't really see that guy available.

Two out of three isn't bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shoes22]

pf and center on this team in case noone noticed. does the exact same thing only one plays the low post and one plays the high post. both take turns at the top of the key. you eed physical play from the big men and that happens under the basket.

there are really only about 3 starting power forward in the nba who really stretch the floor and ill name them

Larmarcus Aldridge, Kevin Love and Dirk Nowitzki can shoot the three 3 or 4 times a game

Mid range shooters 5+ attempts per game
Blake Griffin, Carlos Boozer, Tim duncan, Kris Humphries ( barely a starter) David West

mid range shooters 3-4 attempts a game
Garnett, Zach Randolph, Brandon Bass, ilyasova, Nicholson , Paul Milsap,

Thats It.


Tristan is now attempting mid range shots twice a game.. and he is doing it efficiently enough that its only a matter of time before he is more comfortable taking it more.

Defensively you need a forward who can close the gaps when you do face these teams with big men with range because you also have your small forward such lebron james and Carmelo anthony playing the 4.

Meanwhile AV , Zeller and Bynum when he was here are active centers for the cavs taking midrange shots at over a 45% clip 3 or more times a game

These are typically assist. its pretty clear the Cavs are having their big men take these shots by design and that design doesnt require Tristan Thompson to be a scoring threat outside of 19 feet.

Uhh...you forgot dinosaur boy in the first category: