I see these comments, and it sounds like nothing more than dribbling nonsense. There's nothing tangible here. Do people really think that the decision makers for the Indians aren't motivated to win? And what do you mean by "anything"? Do you simply mean he will spend a bunch of money? He won't deficit spend for more than a year or so. There's a big difference between being able to throw cash around when you're in the NBA and have Lebron on the roster, and owning a MLB team.
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Gilbert buying Indians soon ?
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I see these comments, and it sounds like nothing more than dribbling nonsense. There's nothing tangible here. Do people really think that the decision makers for the Indians aren't motivated to win? And what do you mean by "anything"? Do you simply mean he will spend a bunch of money? He won't deficit spend for more than a year or so. There's a big difference between being able to throw cash around when you're in the NBA and have Lebron on the roster, and owning a MLB team.
Nom
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Random question -
How much profit should an MLB owner make in a year? With the reports the Indians made $30 million - does that make them evil?
I only ask because we just came out of an NBA lockout where most people sided with the owners' desire to turn a profit (and more or less guarantee a profit). And that is with a salary cap and max contracts.
In baseball we BASH an owner for turning a profit - even though he has no guaranteed costs due to no salary cap and no max contracts.
I highly doubt there was a $30 million profit last year for the Tribe. I think they normally turn a profit, though fairly minimal in MLB terms ($5-10 million). In 2009 they had a high payroll and low attendance and complained of losing money - in 2011 they had low payroll and high(er) attendance, so it stands to reason they turned a decent profit.
But how much of that profit should be put back into a team? Honest question. I'm looking at no one blinking at Prince Fielder making $20+ million a year, but being angry at an owner for making a similar amount. Should owners be required to make less than players?
How much profit should an MLB owner make in a year? With the reports the Indians made $30 million - does that make them evil?
I only ask because we just came out of an NBA lockout where most people sided with the owners' desire to turn a profit (and more or less guarantee a profit). And that is with a salary cap and max contracts.
In baseball we BASH an owner for turning a profit - even though he has no guaranteed costs due to no salary cap and no max contracts.
I highly doubt there was a $30 million profit last year for the Tribe. I think they normally turn a profit, though fairly minimal in MLB terms ($5-10 million). In 2009 they had a high payroll and low attendance and complained of losing money - in 2011 they had low payroll and high(er) attendance, so it stands to reason they turned a decent profit.
But how much of that profit should be put back into a team? Honest question. I'm looking at no one blinking at Prince Fielder making $20+ million a year, but being angry at an owner for making a similar amount. Should owners be required to make less than players?
Steve_424
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While I would love to see Gilbert owning the Indians, he understands how to be an NBA owner. It's a very different world in MLB.
Steve_424
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http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2012/03/cleveland_indians_ceo_paul_dol.html
By Terry Pluto
GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- I sat down with Tribe CEO Paul Dolan for a long talk on the state of the franchise that his family has owned since the end of the 1999 season. This is their 13th year. In that span, they have had two playoff appearances (2001 and 2007). There have been four winning seasons.
Since the 2007 loss to Boston in Game 7 of the American League Championship Series, the Indians are 295-353. They were 80-82 last season.
As I talked with Dolan, my goal was to allow him to explain his view of the franchise, not say, "Why don't you just sell the team?" OK, I did ask about a possible sale, and Dolan said that there have been no "serious buyers" during their ownership. He has been open to possible minority investors, and so far none have emerged.
In 2000, Major League Baseball approved the sale of the Tribe to the Dolans for $323 million. It was $3 million more than the Dodgers were sold for during that same time frame. Forbes Magazine recently estimated the worth of the franchise at $410 million. The Dodgers will soon be sold for about $1.4 billion.
Here is Dolan on several topics:
About Forbes' estimates of $30 million profit
According to Forbes Magazine, the Indians made $30 million last season -- the most in the majors.
According to Dolan, "No way we made that kind of money." He explained that Forbes "doesn't have access to the real data" on what teams make and lose, only Major League Baseball and the Players Association has it.
He said the Indians "made a little bit" of a profit last year. He added that the only time in their 13 years of ownership that "owners received a distribution" of profits was in the playoff season of 2007.
"Every other year, we put what we made back into the team," he said.
Dolan knows that the $30 million report "challenges those who understand that market size makes it difficult to turn huge profits." He once again insisted Forbes wasn't accurate, then offered an interesting defense. He said during the labor negotiations between the owners and players, the Indians were brought in to discuss how to run a franchise and fairly use the money from revenue sharing.
"Both the union and MLB agreed we were doing it the right way," said Dolan. "That's why they had [President Mark Shapiro and General Manager Chris Antonetti] talk about how we operate. If we were just pocketing the money, the union would never agree to have us represented as the franchise doing it right. The union has called out other teams [for taking excess profits], but never us."
The Marlins were one of the franchises most criticized a few years ago.
About the Tigers
"[The Tigers] operate much different than most franchises," says Dolan of Detroit owner Mike Ilitch. "Even the teams in major markets tend to operate as we do --- they spend what they take in and don't go way above that."
While the Indians will increase their payroll from about $50 million last season (ranked 25th) to about $70 million in 2012, the Tigers will be spending more than $140 million -- in the top five in baseball.
Tribe fans look at the Tigers' acquisition of free agent Prince Fielder ($214 million for nine years), and wonder why a team in Cleveland can't at least do something similar to what owner Mike Ilitch is doing across the interstate in Detroit.
"I understand that makes us look bad," said Dolan. "I don't understand the foundation of what they are doing ... OK, in the short term, I do understand it, but long term ..."
Ilitch is 82 years old. He is ranked No. 212 on the Forbes' top 400 richest people ... worth $2.4 billion. He owns Little Caesars pizza, the Detroit Red Wings and the Tigers, which he bought in 1992. The team has made the playoffs twice -- 2006 and 2011. He has been one of MLB's biggest spenders in the last few years, trying to bring a World Series title to Detroit during his lifetime.
"They [the Tigers] operate much different than most franchises," said Dolan. "Even the teams in major markets tend to operate as we do -- they spend what they take in and don't go way above that."
But he admits that as long as the Tigers spend freely, they will make it hard for everyone else in the Central Division.
About the new labor agreement
"We achieved labor peace," said Dolan. "But we didn't address the fundamental problems [such as a lack of a salary cap]."
About Sports Time Ohio
The Indians started STO in 2006 to market their own games and sell the rights to various cable companies. There have been rumors that STO may be sold.
"I won't speak about those," said Dolan. "We are always looking to add revenue on the TV side of things."
He said the real money comes from the rights fees of the cable companies, not advertising, "which is a small part of it."
It seems Dolan is very open to some sort of different business arrangement with STO.
The lack of players under contract beyond two years
Dolan is unconcerned about the lack of long-term contracts on the Indians' roster, choosing to focusing on the franchise's control of key players such as Carlos Santana prior to their ability to apply for free agency. "A lot of our key players are under control beyond two years."
Dolan said he didn't even realize that no Tribe player was signed to a contract beyond 2013, "until it came up when I did an interview with Les Levine." He then added that this wasn't significant.
"The real issue is how long do we have guys under control [before they reach free agency]," he said. "A lot of our key players are under control beyond two years."
His point is that key players such as Justin Masterson (2015 free agency), Jason Kipnis (2017), Chris Perez (2015), Michael Brantley (2017) and Carlos Santana (2017) are years away from becoming free agents.
About long-term contracts
During the Dolans' ownership, the Indians have given long lucrative deals to Travis Hafner, Jake Westbrook and Grady Sizemore. All three players then suffered significant injuries.
"If Chris [Antonetti] and Mark [Shapiro] comes to us with a long-term deal they want to make, we will seriously consider it," he said. "They have not done that [lately]."
Dolan didn't say the Indians would simply refuse to make major, multi-year financial commitments.
"We will remain open," he said. "But in totality, how successful have those kind of deals been? More often than not, they have been failures."
About the Jimenez deal
When Antonetti approached Dolan with the idea of trading Alex White and Drew Pomeranz to Colorado for Ubaldo Jimenez, Dolan admits, "I was surprised. Like most fans, I'm used to us trading for prospects -- not trading some of our best prospects."
So what about it?
"I was happy to see us take that approach and try to win," he said.
But now that Jimenez has struggled, how does he feel about the trade?
"I've been around long enough to know that it's way too early to know how this will play out," he said. "What will Ubaldo do for us? How will White and Pomeranz do for them? It could take years to know the answer."
About Roberto Hernandez
Dolan isn't obsessing about the off-season revelations surrounding the pitcher once known as Fausto Carmona. "These type of things [name changes, age changes] do happen," he said.
Dolan said he wasn't "shocked" when the Indians received word that pitcher Fausto Carmona really wasn't 28, but was actually 31-year-old Roberto Hernandez.
"About a year ago, there was a rumor that there was something with Fausto," he said. "These type of things [name changes, age changes] do happen."
Dolan said the Indians could never track it down. Now that Hernandez is awaiting clearance from the U.S. immigration department to return to the Indians, "I really can't say anything else."
About Grady Sizemore
"When we signed Grady [for $5 million], we knew there was some risk because of his knee problems," said Dolan. "It's disappointing that he got hurt again. But we thought it was worth the risk because no one else on the [free agent] market had even close to Grady's upside for that price."
About manager Manny Acta
"The fans love Manny and his passion for the game comes through," said Dolan. "He communicates well with the fans and players. I like the enthusiasm that the team shows under him."
About Chris Antonetti
"While he has been general manager for only a year, he has been involved in our decision-making process for a long time," said Dolan. "He has done a great job. On balance, he has made good decisions. I know his strengths. As I mentioned, both MLB and the union mentioned us as how a franchise should be run. Not every decision has worked out, but I like what Chris is doing."
Dolan then added: "I want our fans to know that we do want to win and care about winning. The franchise is in good shape. We know we have to keep getting better. We do want to win as much as the fans do and care about it as much as they do."
But the fact remains the Dolan family is not about to dramatically change how business has been done. To win, they have to draft better, develop young players faster, and trade wiser than most other teams. In other words, they have to do it the hard way -- much as Minnesota and Tampa Bay have done in recent years.
By Terry Pluto
GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- I sat down with Tribe CEO Paul Dolan for a long talk on the state of the franchise that his family has owned since the end of the 1999 season. This is their 13th year. In that span, they have had two playoff appearances (2001 and 2007). There have been four winning seasons.
Since the 2007 loss to Boston in Game 7 of the American League Championship Series, the Indians are 295-353. They were 80-82 last season.
As I talked with Dolan, my goal was to allow him to explain his view of the franchise, not say, "Why don't you just sell the team?" OK, I did ask about a possible sale, and Dolan said that there have been no "serious buyers" during their ownership. He has been open to possible minority investors, and so far none have emerged.
In 2000, Major League Baseball approved the sale of the Tribe to the Dolans for $323 million. It was $3 million more than the Dodgers were sold for during that same time frame. Forbes Magazine recently estimated the worth of the franchise at $410 million. The Dodgers will soon be sold for about $1.4 billion.
Here is Dolan on several topics:
About Forbes' estimates of $30 million profit
According to Forbes Magazine, the Indians made $30 million last season -- the most in the majors.
According to Dolan, "No way we made that kind of money." He explained that Forbes "doesn't have access to the real data" on what teams make and lose, only Major League Baseball and the Players Association has it.
He said the Indians "made a little bit" of a profit last year. He added that the only time in their 13 years of ownership that "owners received a distribution" of profits was in the playoff season of 2007.
"Every other year, we put what we made back into the team," he said.
Dolan knows that the $30 million report "challenges those who understand that market size makes it difficult to turn huge profits." He once again insisted Forbes wasn't accurate, then offered an interesting defense. He said during the labor negotiations between the owners and players, the Indians were brought in to discuss how to run a franchise and fairly use the money from revenue sharing.
"Both the union and MLB agreed we were doing it the right way," said Dolan. "That's why they had [President Mark Shapiro and General Manager Chris Antonetti] talk about how we operate. If we were just pocketing the money, the union would never agree to have us represented as the franchise doing it right. The union has called out other teams [for taking excess profits], but never us."
The Marlins were one of the franchises most criticized a few years ago.
About the Tigers
"[The Tigers] operate much different than most franchises," says Dolan of Detroit owner Mike Ilitch. "Even the teams in major markets tend to operate as we do --- they spend what they take in and don't go way above that."
While the Indians will increase their payroll from about $50 million last season (ranked 25th) to about $70 million in 2012, the Tigers will be spending more than $140 million -- in the top five in baseball.
Tribe fans look at the Tigers' acquisition of free agent Prince Fielder ($214 million for nine years), and wonder why a team in Cleveland can't at least do something similar to what owner Mike Ilitch is doing across the interstate in Detroit.
"I understand that makes us look bad," said Dolan. "I don't understand the foundation of what they are doing ... OK, in the short term, I do understand it, but long term ..."
Ilitch is 82 years old. He is ranked No. 212 on the Forbes' top 400 richest people ... worth $2.4 billion. He owns Little Caesars pizza, the Detroit Red Wings and the Tigers, which he bought in 1992. The team has made the playoffs twice -- 2006 and 2011. He has been one of MLB's biggest spenders in the last few years, trying to bring a World Series title to Detroit during his lifetime.
"They [the Tigers] operate much different than most franchises," said Dolan. "Even the teams in major markets tend to operate as we do -- they spend what they take in and don't go way above that."
But he admits that as long as the Tigers spend freely, they will make it hard for everyone else in the Central Division.
About the new labor agreement
"We achieved labor peace," said Dolan. "But we didn't address the fundamental problems [such as a lack of a salary cap]."
About Sports Time Ohio
The Indians started STO in 2006 to market their own games and sell the rights to various cable companies. There have been rumors that STO may be sold.
"I won't speak about those," said Dolan. "We are always looking to add revenue on the TV side of things."
He said the real money comes from the rights fees of the cable companies, not advertising, "which is a small part of it."
It seems Dolan is very open to some sort of different business arrangement with STO.
The lack of players under contract beyond two years
Dolan is unconcerned about the lack of long-term contracts on the Indians' roster, choosing to focusing on the franchise's control of key players such as Carlos Santana prior to their ability to apply for free agency. "A lot of our key players are under control beyond two years."
Dolan said he didn't even realize that no Tribe player was signed to a contract beyond 2013, "until it came up when I did an interview with Les Levine." He then added that this wasn't significant.
"The real issue is how long do we have guys under control [before they reach free agency]," he said. "A lot of our key players are under control beyond two years."
His point is that key players such as Justin Masterson (2015 free agency), Jason Kipnis (2017), Chris Perez (2015), Michael Brantley (2017) and Carlos Santana (2017) are years away from becoming free agents.
About long-term contracts
During the Dolans' ownership, the Indians have given long lucrative deals to Travis Hafner, Jake Westbrook and Grady Sizemore. All three players then suffered significant injuries.
"If Chris [Antonetti] and Mark [Shapiro] comes to us with a long-term deal they want to make, we will seriously consider it," he said. "They have not done that [lately]."
Dolan didn't say the Indians would simply refuse to make major, multi-year financial commitments.
"We will remain open," he said. "But in totality, how successful have those kind of deals been? More often than not, they have been failures."
About the Jimenez deal
When Antonetti approached Dolan with the idea of trading Alex White and Drew Pomeranz to Colorado for Ubaldo Jimenez, Dolan admits, "I was surprised. Like most fans, I'm used to us trading for prospects -- not trading some of our best prospects."
So what about it?
"I was happy to see us take that approach and try to win," he said.
But now that Jimenez has struggled, how does he feel about the trade?
"I've been around long enough to know that it's way too early to know how this will play out," he said. "What will Ubaldo do for us? How will White and Pomeranz do for them? It could take years to know the answer."
About Roberto Hernandez
Dolan isn't obsessing about the off-season revelations surrounding the pitcher once known as Fausto Carmona. "These type of things [name changes, age changes] do happen," he said.
Dolan said he wasn't "shocked" when the Indians received word that pitcher Fausto Carmona really wasn't 28, but was actually 31-year-old Roberto Hernandez.
"About a year ago, there was a rumor that there was something with Fausto," he said. "These type of things [name changes, age changes] do happen."
Dolan said the Indians could never track it down. Now that Hernandez is awaiting clearance from the U.S. immigration department to return to the Indians, "I really can't say anything else."
About Grady Sizemore
"When we signed Grady [for $5 million], we knew there was some risk because of his knee problems," said Dolan. "It's disappointing that he got hurt again. But we thought it was worth the risk because no one else on the [free agent] market had even close to Grady's upside for that price."
About manager Manny Acta
"The fans love Manny and his passion for the game comes through," said Dolan. "He communicates well with the fans and players. I like the enthusiasm that the team shows under him."
About Chris Antonetti
"While he has been general manager for only a year, he has been involved in our decision-making process for a long time," said Dolan. "He has done a great job. On balance, he has made good decisions. I know his strengths. As I mentioned, both MLB and the union mentioned us as how a franchise should be run. Not every decision has worked out, but I like what Chris is doing."
Dolan then added: "I want our fans to know that we do want to win and care about winning. The franchise is in good shape. We know we have to keep getting better. We do want to win as much as the fans do and care about it as much as they do."
But the fact remains the Dolan family is not about to dramatically change how business has been done. To win, they have to draft better, develop young players faster, and trade wiser than most other teams. In other words, they have to do it the hard way -- much as Minnesota and Tampa Bay have done in recent years.
polska2211
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im still calling bullshit on Dolan saying that they didn't turn a profit of 30 million last year. what does forbes have to gain by just making up numbers? the dolans + the front office are quick to say they are running on a slim budget and the times are tough, but when the numbers show that they have actually been making money, they just cant own up to it? and the idea that the tigers payroll is actually more than twice that of the indians is frightening.
Forbes isn't necessarily lying to us, they just don't have access to the Indians books, so their numbers aren't that accurate.
polska2211
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the numbers have to be close. you dont think a company like forbes would be able to estimate the numbers well? the difference between 30 million and 25 million is negligible.
BMAN
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Then why comment?
To someone who makes five figures, maybe. But you can be pretty sure that the Indians notice the difference. I'd bet that Forbes estimates the numbers well enough for people who think revenue and operating income are all that you need to evaluate a firm's financial position.
polska2211
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very valid point, but the point im trying to make is that the dolans are the first to cry wolf when they are operating at a loss, but when they are pointed out to operating on a profit, they call bullshit on the numbers. i have no problem with them running at a profit as long as they put money back into the squad to make it competitive. after all, you dont own a professional sports team to make money. there are ulterior motives behind owning a sports team (want to win, loyalty, etc.).
Pyro
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Well, we know Magic Johnson isn't buying the Indians anytime soon...
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=App8XFrH6RTQ_qLoCw9JgWI5nYcB?slug=ap-apnewsalert
http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=App8XFrH6RTQ_qLoCw9JgWI5nYcB?slug=ap-apnewsalert