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Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls
- Thread starter CosmoKramer
- Start date
I was impressed with Manziel quite a bit. Not impressed at all by his package of plays. Maybe it's me, but it jut feels lazy to run him out there and immediately start calling zone read plays.
It's not like the guy did a ton of zone read at A&M. He comes from a spread system but the zone read isn't something they relied on. He has mobility but it just seems lazy to me. It reminded me of Oakland forcing Pryor to be a gimmick when Palmer was the starter. Let's just have our mobile guy operate a zone read system...
Move him around in the pocket, give him run/throw options, and emphasize quick reads. I imagine it will evolve into that, but first impression of how they want to use Johnny almost insulted me as a football fan.
It's not like the guy did a ton of zone read at A&M. He comes from a spread system but the zone read isn't something they relied on. He has mobility but it just seems lazy to me. It reminded me of Oakland forcing Pryor to be a gimmick when Palmer was the starter. Let's just have our mobile guy operate a zone read system...
Move him around in the pocket, give him run/throw options, and emphasize quick reads. I imagine it will evolve into that, but first impression of how they want to use Johnny almost insulted me as a football fan.
Manziel did some good things out there.
I still think Hoyer starts with Manziel learning behind him. At least to start the year.
But I saw enough to make me believe Johnny can do things at this level. Which was reassuring.
I still think Hoyer starts with Manziel learning behind him. At least to start the year.
But I saw enough to make me believe Johnny can do things at this level. Which was reassuring.
AZ_
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I only saw Hoyer for the first two drives before leaving for a concert, but what I saw from the highlights was about what I expected from both.
Going to be a real struggle for this team offensively, but I really like what Ben Tate and the OL bring to the table with quick burst on those one cut runs.
Tornicade
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Ill have to disagree with Randolph about letting manziel be the preseason QB then starting Hoyer in the regular season.Hoyer is a competent qb not a good one.
Getting Jason garret practice time in exhibition behind troy aikman is a far cry from limiting first team possessions to a semi experienced competent qb who has never started for a club for a full season.
just look at young guns. Dick Brewer was a competent leader of the regulators but the crew would go through hell and high water for Billy even though most didnt like him.
If Manziel has a stellar offseason with the first team then Hoyer starts the season . he now has a big cloud over his shoulder as opposed to if he had won the starting job on the field
Getting Jason garret practice time in exhibition behind troy aikman is a far cry from limiting first team possessions to a semi experienced competent qb who has never started for a club for a full season.
just look at young guns. Dick Brewer was a competent leader of the regulators but the crew would go through hell and high water for Billy even though most didnt like him.
If Manziel has a stellar offseason with the first team then Hoyer starts the season . he now has a big cloud over his shoulder as opposed to if he had won the starting job on the field
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To be fair, I think Hoyer needs to have 2-3 possessions in preseason games as well, he did look a little rusty in the first two possessions before connecting on his intermediate targets. But, I'd argue giving Manziel the majority of each preseason game is a wise move for his development. If he gets his bell rung a few times and isn't 100% for the regular season, who cares? He needs experience against NFL defenders to find out what he can and can't do... may as well let him make his mistakes in the preseason.
Soda
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The set-up to say Johnny won a flawed contest. :chuckles: I kid.
I thought they both looked a bit off.. Hoyer had better timing, Manziel had better re-course when the play didn't unfold as written.
Both players over-threw a couple receivers. Manziel's receivers/Dion Lewis let him down big-time while I thought Tate ran well early.
Manziel's arm in the short and intermediate areas is "live". He can and will fit the ball into tight windows in and out of the pocket. Maybe he doesn't throw a dart deep like Weeden, but that remains to be seen.
West ran reluctantly.. Reminded me of Trent. I bet he figures out the style, though.
Hoyer threw a few too many dumps for my liking. Timing, I would presume..
Manziel wasn't nearly as quick through progressions as Hoyer. He knew where he wanted to go with the ball as soon as the ball was snapped.
Overall, I'd say the game looked pretty solid for the first preseason game. Pettine didn't seemed over-matched coaching wise and he certainly was screwed on the fumble challenge that was a clear cop-out for the refs. I think timing of routes will continue to be a challenge; the Browns will likely sign a receiver who's cut at the end of the month. The defense is pretty deep, but they need to become more harmonious. The running game should pick-up significantly from last year.
It'll be very interesting to see Johnny with the 1s on Monday night against the Redskins. If that's how it rolls out, of course.
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I think the biggest thing I saw from Manziel is that every time he got another drive under his belt, he was getting better. His first series was bad, although it had little to do with him. He made the correct read on the option, it's just Dray missed a block.
On his second series, he started out hot, then drops started to haunt him...was that the Dion Lewis fumble?
On his third, he found a little bit more and he was starting to hit the slant with ease again. It's easily his best throwing route, fitting into tight windows in perfect spots.
It's encouraging to see Johnny stay in the pocket and really sling the ball. We know what he can do on the move. His arm looks certainly strong enough, and his ability to move won't be hindered in the NFL. He's still making linemen miss and moving chains with his feet.
I really want to see Johnny with the first team offensive line. His progressions are slow and under developed it seems, although I think most of that was Manziel knowing that he only had time to get one read in before the offensive line deteriorated in front of him.
I was nervous that Johnny would come out, try to run around and buy time trying to do too much. If anything, he really does have the ability to control his emotions on the field and become a leader. He knew what he was doing at all times, he took control of the huddle. I'm not going to give him credit to recognize being a man short, although I'm sure it looks like an amazing ability when compared to dumbass Weeden.
For a 1st preseason game, Johnny did about everything you want. Obviously would have loved to see them get in the endzone, but with that offensive line and WR'ers, and not to mention fumbles, it was going nowhere. I'm feeling more and more confident that Johnny is the most talented QB on the roster, which means he's at least a NFL starter, IMO.
Edit: I will add that I think we did see some stuff that really does make Johnny special.
For example, the 4th and 1 play. Manziel took the ball and decided to run it. Obviously, the FB looked wide open, although it does appear early in the play that the route was primed to be jumped, either for an INT, pass break up, or the FB getting lit up. Instead, Johnny decided to run, make a man miss, and managed to make it to the first down marker. There was a point in the play where it would have been smart to throw the ball, but Manziel clearly has more faith in his legs. It's going to happen early in his career. He went out of bounds so I cannot fault him nor deride him for taking a shot. He just has to be smart when he runs.
The other...man, I have never seen a player who is so comfortable rolling to his left and throwing the ball. Manziel does it with such ease and accuracy, it makes him absolutely deadly on bootlegs. If the Browns get the running game going, and Tate is gashing holes, that offense is going to be very hard to stop with Manziel running bootlegs. We've seen Manziel's ability to make a guy miss, so if he gets into open space like that, and has options, he really puts the defense to heel. In game, Manziel did this to perfection, although...Sneed blows and he couldn't stay in bounds. If that's Austin, or Gordon, or Hawkins, or Cameron, that's a first down and you keep the chains moving.
On his second series, he started out hot, then drops started to haunt him...was that the Dion Lewis fumble?
On his third, he found a little bit more and he was starting to hit the slant with ease again. It's easily his best throwing route, fitting into tight windows in perfect spots.
It's encouraging to see Johnny stay in the pocket and really sling the ball. We know what he can do on the move. His arm looks certainly strong enough, and his ability to move won't be hindered in the NFL. He's still making linemen miss and moving chains with his feet.
I really want to see Johnny with the first team offensive line. His progressions are slow and under developed it seems, although I think most of that was Manziel knowing that he only had time to get one read in before the offensive line deteriorated in front of him.
I was nervous that Johnny would come out, try to run around and buy time trying to do too much. If anything, he really does have the ability to control his emotions on the field and become a leader. He knew what he was doing at all times, he took control of the huddle. I'm not going to give him credit to recognize being a man short, although I'm sure it looks like an amazing ability when compared to dumbass Weeden.
For a 1st preseason game, Johnny did about everything you want. Obviously would have loved to see them get in the endzone, but with that offensive line and WR'ers, and not to mention fumbles, it was going nowhere. I'm feeling more and more confident that Johnny is the most talented QB on the roster, which means he's at least a NFL starter, IMO.
Edit: I will add that I think we did see some stuff that really does make Johnny special.
For example, the 4th and 1 play. Manziel took the ball and decided to run it. Obviously, the FB looked wide open, although it does appear early in the play that the route was primed to be jumped, either for an INT, pass break up, or the FB getting lit up. Instead, Johnny decided to run, make a man miss, and managed to make it to the first down marker. There was a point in the play where it would have been smart to throw the ball, but Manziel clearly has more faith in his legs. It's going to happen early in his career. He went out of bounds so I cannot fault him nor deride him for taking a shot. He just has to be smart when he runs.
The other...man, I have never seen a player who is so comfortable rolling to his left and throwing the ball. Manziel does it with such ease and accuracy, it makes him absolutely deadly on bootlegs. If the Browns get the running game going, and Tate is gashing holes, that offense is going to be very hard to stop with Manziel running bootlegs. We've seen Manziel's ability to make a guy miss, so if he gets into open space like that, and has options, he really puts the defense to heel. In game, Manziel did this to perfection, although...Sneed blows and he couldn't stay in bounds. If that's Austin, or Gordon, or Hawkins, or Cameron, that's a first down and you keep the chains moving.
OptimusPrime
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Johnny looked ok for his first action. He only really threw some quick slants and one intermediate post, but he probably doesn't know much of the playbook yet, so I'm sure they limited him.
Hoyer definitely looked better to the eye though. He had a couple high throws, but otherwise he put the ball on the money down the field a couple of times only to have it dropped by what appears to be another pitiful receiving corps.
Neither QB looked great, but to me Hoyer looked better. The run defense was pretty disappointing. The pass rush was pretty good, but they blitzed so much it's hard to tell how real that was. Kirksey looks like a player though.
Hoyer definitely looked better to the eye though. He had a couple high throws, but otherwise he put the ball on the money down the field a couple of times only to have it dropped by what appears to be another pitiful receiving corps.
Neither QB looked great, but to me Hoyer looked better. The run defense was pretty disappointing. The pass rush was pretty good, but they blitzed so much it's hard to tell how real that was. Kirksey looks like a player though.
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Hoyer looked like the typical veteran QB. He made quicker reads, dumped it off...all that jazz. His arm looks fluttery, though. And he missed high over the middle, a huge no no.
Does that mean Hoyer should start? I have no idea. I think the offense will be more complicated for Hoyer, simplistic for Manziel. Both can work in the NFL. Manziel looks like the more talented thrower, Hoyer is far ahead as a decision maker.
I'd take Manziel in the simple offense than Hoyer in the complicated offense right now. But that's just my preference.
Also, yes. If we can discuss this in here...Kirksey...dude looked awesome.
Does that mean Hoyer should start? I have no idea. I think the offense will be more complicated for Hoyer, simplistic for Manziel. Both can work in the NFL. Manziel looks like the more talented thrower, Hoyer is far ahead as a decision maker.
I'd take Manziel in the simple offense than Hoyer in the complicated offense right now. But that's just my preference.
Also, yes. If we can discuss this in here...Kirksey...dude looked awesome.
Chris
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It was Manziel's first game against NFL competition, a preseason game at that. He's a rookie. And he looked about as good as Hoyer, all things considered. Yes, Hoyer did some things better, but Manziel's legs give him an added dynamic and something Hoyer could never dream of having. Super small sample size so next week will be a nice game to watch and see more, but the game did not look like it was passing JF by or any of this other stuff people were saying about him. I think he can play in this league. How good can he be though?
bushwick_bill
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Florio was on the Mannix Show yesterday and basically said it is only a matter of time until her gets hurt. It was the same as when RGIII got hurt, it is inevitable.
Soda
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How hurt? Every player gets hurt; Florio saying he'll get injured is like saying the sky will be blue this fall. Is he stating that Johnny is going to tear an ACL? That'd be pretty irresponsible to say, considering there's nothing to base that on.