Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Chris]

dude, the saints sending an all out blitz had absolutely nothing to do with johnny manziel getting a couple plays in the third quarter (????) im baffled at how you can even piece that together....

You know how I Know you're new?

 

[AZ_]

Personally I don't think there has been enough discussion on his throw.

Rob Ryan CLEARLY had the fear of God put in him.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Wow, that's completely wrong. If he stands tall and delivers he gets decked from an unblocked rusher- Bitonio obviously missed his block on #95. Despite throwing across his body the throw was on time and more than catchable, stop penalizing him for leaving the pocket when it was actually necessary to avoid pressure.

Looks to me like Manziel had a better throwing angle from outside the pocket. Rolling out got him a clean look at Agnew without having to throw over defenders. Agnew also got a few more yards down field while Manziel was rolling out.

I suppose you could argue it either way, but to argue that he made the clearly wrong play is overstating it.

What's more interesting in terms of the QB debate here is that nobody has posted in the Hoyer thread since before the game. Normally, when people are arguing against the backup, they're also touting the great play of the starter.

ETA: Until like the minute after I posted this.

 

[AZ_]

Plenty of Hoyer talk in the game thread, he's gonna do what he's gonna do.

I can't imagine Shanahan has any interesting in sending out the kid to panic and scramble without any offensive rhythm.

Although based on those three plays yesterday, I may be getting ready to change my stance.

 

[SixPACK]

I can't believe some people want to see Manziel after this/talking about drafting another QB AL-FUCKING-READY after a win against a Saints team that can put points on the board. I am a Manziel guy, hope he succeeds with US, but if Hoyer can take us to playoff contention, you better stick with him.

I can't wait until we just miss the playoffs (hope we make it, of course) and people are clambering to waste our picks to move up and get Winston or Mariota.

Don't know about you, but I will take Hoyer's mediocre stat-line without Gordon/Cameron all day with this offense. 60%, 200yds and 1 TD/0 INT, all day without those 2. If you think about it, we had fucking Miles "I look like Jimmy Graham, that makes me good, right?" Austin catch our only TD.

Keep rolling the Hoyer train unless he just derails completely.

 

[AZ_]

I'm quite happy with Hoyer thus far, but the two defense he's played leave quite a bit to be desired. I wouldn't go stopping the search for improvement at QB quite yet.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Don't know about you, but I will take Hoyer's mediocre stat-line without Gordon/Cameron all day with this offense. 60%, 200yds and 1 TD/0 INT, all day without those 2. If you think about it, we had fucking Miles "I look like Jimmy Graham, that makes me good, right?" Austin catch our only TD.

I didn't even look at his stat line. A QB can have a crappy stat line for all sorts of reasons, including WR's who can't get open, dropped balls, poor blocking, stud defense, etc.. I'm just going by my eyeballs, which tell me that Hoyer is generally inaccurate.

Keep rolling the Hoyer train unless he just derails completely.

I don't think the path to a championship rides on an average or below-average quarterback whose performance is at the level of "not completely derailing". I have no problem continuing to play the guy for now, but I'm not seeing a guy who is going to win us many games. He can manage a game, and if the defense is there and the running game is there, he'll get some wins. That's fine for a backup, but not for a starter. At least not in my opinion.

Wish he was looking better than this, but I'm just going off what I see.

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

Miles "I look like Jimmy Graham, that makes me good, right?" Austin

my girlfriend kept mixing them up and she asked me "wait i thought Graham was on the Saints?" ..I had to wait until Austin turned around so I could see his last name lmao

 

[Chris]

Personally I don't think there has been enough discussion on his throw.

Rob Ryan CLEARLY had the fear of God put in him.

I knew you would back me on this. Its as if these guys have never watched Manziel play.

 

[Phills14]

Looks to me like Manziel had a better throwing angle from outside the pocket. Rolling out got him a clean look at Agnew without having to throw over defenders. Agnew also got a few more yards down field while Manziel was rolling out.

I suppose you could argue it either way, but to argue that he made the clearly wrong play is overstating it.

What's more interesting in terms of the QB debate here is that nobody has posted in the Hoyer thread since before the game. Normally, when people are arguing against the backup, they're also touting the great play of the starter.

ETA: Until like the minute after I posted this.

If you go back to my original post it was more about the natural instinct to take the unconventional play instead of the play in front of him. His throw was on the money and Agnew should have caught it. Still, my contention is that he could have stood tall and delivered the ball over the middle to Agnew without rolling to his left and throwing across his body.

When those 2 options are presented, most QBs choose the easier play and my point is Manziel chose the harder play. In this instance it ended in an above average throw and a drop but the odds are you make many more mistakes making that play than simply standing in the pocket and delivering the football.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

If you go back to my original post it was more about the natural instinct to take the unconventional play instead of the play in front of him. His throw was on the money and Agnew should have caught it. Still, my contention is that he could have stood tall and delivered the ball over the middle to Agnew without rolling to his left and throwing across his body.

When those 2 options are presented, most QBs choose the easier play and my point is Manziel chose the harder play. In this instance it ended in an above average throw and a drop but the odds are you make many more mistakes making that play than simply standing in the pocket and delivering the football.

Where we differ is that I think "the play in front of him" involved a tougher throw than the play he made. I don't think he had nearly as good a throwing lane before he rolled out. So maybe yes, other QB's would have made the throw from the pocket. And I think in most cases, it would have been a worse throw.

Shorter QB's in particular have to worry more about throwing lanes, not getting balls batted down, and not having to loft the ball too much because that can lead to INT's. I think a lot of times when people say that a guy was "open", they ignore the lack of a throwing lane for the ball to get through the LOS.

 

[upper lip]

You know how I Know you're new?

Let's hear it

 

[AZ_]

Let's hear it

Still not getting that thick layer of sarcasm, eh?

 

[upper lip]

Still not getting that thick layer of sarcasm, eh?

Apparently not?

 

[SixPACK]

I didn't even look at his stat line. A QB can have a crappy stat line for all sorts of reasons, including WR's who can't get open, dropped balls, poor blocking, stud defense, etc.. I'm just going by my eyeballs, which tell me that Hoyer is generally inaccurate.



I don't think the path to a championship rides on an average or below-average quarterback whose performance is at the level of "not completely derailing". I have no problem continuing to play the guy for now, but I'm not seeing a guy who is going to win us many games. He can manage a game, and if the defense is there and the running game is there, he'll get some wins. That's fine for a backup, but not for a starter. At least not in my opinion.

Wish he was looking better than this, but I'm just going off what I see.

I get it, he doesn't look like a great QB. But he is doing it with awful receivers. Give the guy a damn supporting case to throw to. Taking out Cameron/Gordon takes out a good chunk of yardage. Also big play possibilities for Hawkins.

We have no idea how anyone is going to pan out. Mariota, Winston or Manziel.