Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[AZ_]

Russell Wilson had a pretty spectacular year last season, finishing in the top 10 in passer rating, YPA and touchdowns.

If Brian Hoyer can ever pull a season like that off, I'll be fully on board. But that's not the type of player he is or will ever become.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Wilson has great open field running ability, but last year he stopped using it as much. He worked to become less of a one read QB, worked to take less hits, and won more games because of it. He did everything we have hoped Manziel would ponder floating atop his inflatable bar swans. But I do agree that isn't Hoyer...

The best comparision for Hoyer remains somewhere between his mentor Brady and his basement, Ryan Fitzpatrick. He is smart, avoids negative plays, and cagey. That one play at the end of the first half when Hoyer got plowed around his own 15 yard line but got the ball off in the direction of a tailback (I think it was West) was so under appreciated. That could have pinned the Browns, and it had to have hurt like hell to sacrifice his body to avoid the sack.

EDIT: I just peaked at Tom Brady's numbers so far this year, thinking, "Well that poor guy's receivers have gone to shit too." His numbers and Hoyer's are practically identical right now.

 

[godfather]

Brian Hoyer should never be mention along with Brady in any way, ever, outside being once his backup QB.

 

[Randolphkeys]

Brian Hoyer should never be mention along with Brady in any way, ever, outside being once his backup QB.

I'm not in love with my words being twisted.

In a small sample size, Hoyer has slightly better stats across the board. I wasn't calling him a better player, I was saying he plays the game a similar way. I understand why a Manziel fan would be resorting to twisting the word of people who have been so consistently motherfucking right, though...

 

[Tornicade]

that last pass could of been a td pass to seal the game instead it was a fair catch.

it was also a coverage mishap that created the opening. that saints defense has folded under pressure two weeks in a row.

perhaps hoyer is the browns trent dilfer stoll not sure that hoyer is the best starting option at qb.. I like that we saw the manziel package and look forward to seeing more of it through the season now that theyve shown they will let him throw.

 

[EdMonix11]

that last pass could of been a td pass to seal the game instead it was a fair catch.

it was also a coverage mishap that created the opening. that saints defense has folded under pressure two weeks in a row.

perhaps hoyer is the browns trent dilfer stoll not sure that hoyer is the best starting option at qb.. I like that we saw the manziel package and look forward to seeing more of it through the season now that theyve shown they will let him throw.

Hoyer is 4-1 as a starter here.

Manziel is 0-1.....in pass attempts. ZING.

....Only in Cleveland could we have a QB controversy despite two excellent offensive showings. I know, I know, let's give the Saints defense credit for Hoyer playing well. I don't care who's QBing next year, Hoyer is clearly the guy this year. It's not even up for debate.....

 

[upper lip]

I'm not in love with my words being twisted.

In a small sample size, Hoyer has slightly better stats across the board. I wasn't calling him a better player, I was saying he plays the game a similar way. I understand why a Manziel fan would be resorting to twisting the word of people who have been so consistently motherfucking right, though...

its getting really annoying, isnt it? this johnny nutt huggers have already gotten on my last nerve. i was about to start throwing some fists when people started cheering when brian hoyer went down.. ugh

 

[upper lip]

btw, hoyer reminds me a lot of tom brady too. been saying it for a while. and with that said, i also think tom brady is a bit overrated. while still a very very good QB, he's a huge product of the system. there are just things he does and that he lacks that i think puts him a notch below brees, manning, and rogers. if brian hoyer took over as qb of the pats 8 years ago i whole heartedly believe he'd be in the same position brady is in now. matt cassel went 11-5 there and was a pro bowler. and im record saying back last july that i thought hoyer was going to be our starting quarterback this this season.. back when no body had even heard of him

 

[Tornicade]

Hoyer is 4-1 as a starter here.

Manziel is 0-1.....in pass attempts. ZING.

....Only in Cleveland could we have a QB controversy despite two excellent offensive showings. I know, I know, let's give the Saints defense credit for Hoyer playing well. I don't care who's QBing next year, Hoyer is clearly the guy this year. It's not even up for debate.....

When you make a trade to grab a qb in the first round of the nfl draft. there is gonna be a quarterback controversy.

 

[Jack Brickman]

When you make a trade to grab a qb in the first round of the nfl draft. there is gonna be a quarterback controversy.

Has there been much controversy since the end of the first game, though? I haven't heard many people clamoring for Manziel since we showed that our week one second half performance may not have been a fluke and beat the Saints, especially since we beat them on a last-minute drive (the anti-Cleveland way, if you will). Most people on here seem pretty content to ride Hoyer as long as he keeps playing well.

 

[CosmoKramer]

btw, hoyer reminds me a lot of tom brady too. been saying it for a while. and with that said, i also think tom brady is a bit overrated. while still a very very good QB, he's a huge product of the system. there are just things he does and that he lacks that i think puts him a notch below brees, manning, and rogers. if brian hoyer took over as qb of the pats 8 years ago i whole heartedly believe he'd be in the same position brady is in now. matt cassel went 11-5 there and was a pro bowler. and im record saying back last july that i thought hoyer was going to be our starting quarterback this this season.. back when no body had even heard of him

Well, there it is. Tom Brady is overrated, and Brian Hoyer would have had the same success if they stuck with him.

Terrible. Tom Brady at 37-years-old makes throws Hoyer couldn't dream of. Brady WAS the system in New England, he made chicken salad out of chicken shit receivers like Reche Caldwell and David Givens for years. When they finally gave him a premier wideout in Moss he submits one of the greatest seasons from a QB of all-time.

But hey, Matt Cassel had some success there as well, Brady must suck!

 

[AZ_]

btw, hoyer reminds me a lot of tom brady too. been saying it for a while. and with that said, i also think tom brady is a bit overrated. while still a very very good QB, he's a huge product of the system. there are just things he does and that he lacks that i think puts him a notch below brees, manning, and rogers. if brian hoyer took over as qb of the pats 8 years ago i whole heartedly believe he'd be in the same position brady is in now. matt cassel went 11-5 there and was a pro bowler. and im record saying back last july that i thought hoyer was going to be our starting quarterback this this season.. back when no body had even heard of him

And remember, he doesn't speak in absolutes unless he's 150% sure.

So obviously, this is pretty legit.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Yeah, Kurt Warner never made strides or marked improvement as he aged, either.

There are some things QB's can be expected to improve upon over time -- poise, the ability to read defenses, making faster/better decisions, checking off at the line, footwork, familiarity with the particular offense you're running, etc.. But in terms of arm strength, accuracy, and foot speed/elusiveness, I'm not sure I've seen those things improve significantly for a given pro QB, though you get some improvement as they mature physically in college.

The concern with what I've seen from Hoyer this year is that his problems seem to be those things that generally don't improve. You can have all the leadership and "moxie" in the world, but if you don't have the arm/accuracy to make the critical throws, it really limits you.

As far as the Russell Wilson comparison, I think Wilson has a moderately stronger arm and significantly better accuracy than Hoyer. So yes, he's a game manager more than a playmaker, but he does that at a very high level.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

And remember, he doesn't speak in absolutes unless he's 150% sure.

Heh. Love that line, AZ.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Has there been much controversy since the end of the first game, though? I haven't heard many people clamoring for Manziel since we showed that our week one second half performance may not have been a fluke and beat the Saints, especially since we beat them on a last-minute drive (the anti-Cleveland way, if you will). Most people on here seem pretty content to ride Hoyer as long as he keeps playing well.

I think some of that may have to do with the bye week. Personally, I was really wondering WTF was going on when Hoyer couldn't hit the broad side of a barn before Manziel came in (he played better after that), and the beginning of that last drive was not exactly confidence-building. But unless Hoyer falls completely apart, I'd certainly ride him through the bye week.

But if he keeps playing essentially as he has in the first two weeks, I'd want to see Manziel after the bye assuming they thought he was ready. He hasn't been horrible, but I think his performances have been less "the Answer" than "the Backup". And don't take that as an endorsement of Manziel, because to be honest, I didn't watch him much in college and he has played little in the pros. It would be more that he's not the guy who we know isn't the Answer rather than saying that Manziel is the Answer.

I think the Baltmore game is going to be key, and I hope Hoyer looks better than he has in the first two. Just too damn inaccurate so far.