Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[The Human Q-Tip]

I get it, he doesn't look like a great QB. But he is doing it with awful receivers. Give the guy a damn supporting case to throw to. Taking out Cameron/Gordon takes out a good chunk of yardage. Also big play possibilities for Hawkins.

Don't see why any of that should make all his long balls flutter, or why he has accuracy issues even on short/medium routes. I don't care about the stats -- not his fault if he's got WR's who can't get open, or he has no time to throw, etc.. The problem is that when he does have someone open, or when he does try to throw the long ball, he's just missing.

We have no idea how anyone is going to pan out. Mariota, Winston or Manziel.

That's true. It's basically trial and error. You pick the best guy available when you have the opportunity, give him a fair shot, and then ditch him if he's not the guy.

 

[SixPACK]

Don't see why any of that should make all his long balls flutter, or why he has accuracy issues even on short/medium routes. I don't care about the stats -- not his fault if he's got WR's who can't get open, or he has no time to throw, etc.. The problem is that when he does have someone open, or when he does try to throw the long ball, he's just missing.



That's true. It's basically trial and error. You pick the best guy available when you have the opportunity, give him a fair shot, and then ditch him if he's not the guy.

I was also watching it on my shitbag laptop because the game wasn't aired in NW Ohio, it wasn't in HD and kept skipping/pausing. So I didn't get every throw as clearly as others. Don't know if it was random or not, but once Johnny got put in, Hoyer played better. Not as many bad throws. Shit, Hoyer can be our "Eli" and take us to the playoffs then we can find a QB to take us a step further. It just sucks b/c he is a hometown guy, never want to kick them to the curb when they actually care about Cleveland. But they need to make up their mind what route they want to take b/c it is going to suck ass if we are talking about which QB we need to move up and grab next off-season.

 

[Phills14]

Where we differ is that I think "the play in front of him" involved a tougher throw than the play he made. I don't think he had nearly as good a throwing lane before he rolled out. So maybe yes, other QB's would have made the throw from the pocket. And I think in most cases, it would have been a worse throw.

Shorter QB's in particular have to worry more about throwing lanes, not getting balls batted down, and not having to loft the ball too much because that can lead to INT's. I think a lot of times when people say that a guy was "open", they ignore the lack of a throwing lane for the ball to get through the LOS.

Maybe so and your point is very logical but that doesn't give me any better feeling for him. Shorter QBs have a distinct disadvantage and it's just one of a 1,000 reasons why I wouldn't have touched Manziel with a 40 foot pole in the draft. There is no denying his instincts are to run away and make a spectacular play. His results in college were wildly positive however; my fear are those spectacular plays will not be as beneficial for his NFL team.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I was also watching it on my shitbag laptop because the game wasn't aired in NW Ohio, it wasn't in HD and kept skipping/pausing. So I didn't get every throw as clearly as others. Don't know if it was random or not, but once Johnny got put in, Hoyer played better. Not as many bad throws. Shit, Hoyer can be our "Eli" and take us to the playoffs then we can find a QB to take us a step further. It just sucks b/c he is a hometown guy, never want to kick them to the curb when they actually care about Cleveland. But they need to make up their mind what route they want to take b/c it is going to suck ass if we are talking about which QB we need to move up and grab next off-season.

I am going to go ahead and call bullshit on an Eli comparison. Eli has thrown four picks so far this season, Hoyer has thrown none. Eli has been blown out two weeks in a row, Hoyer has brought it down to one last play in each.

I was tacitly supporting Hoyer after week one because in the end, he didn't win. He executed very well in the second half, but not well enough for me to jump into his corner. But this past New Orleans game? If you think that wasn't a well quarterbacked game, you need to start watching the crap other QBs are turning in. While Hoyer's yards aren't jumping off the page, the mistake free ball should.

 

[SixPACK]

I am going to go ahead and call bullshit on an Eli comparison. Eli has thrown four picks so far this season, Hoyer has thrown none. Eli has been blown out two weeks in a row, Hoyer has brought it down to one last play in each.

I was tacitly supporting Hoyer after week one because in the end, he didn't win. He executed very well in the second half, but not well enough for me to jump into his corner. But this past New Orleans game? If you think that wasn't a well quarterbacked game, you need to start watching the crap other QBs are turning in. While Hoyer's yards aren't jumping off the page, the mistake free ball should.

In no way was I comparing him to Eli (myself), I was just saying how so many people are jumping on the "let's bash Hoyer" bandwagon and calling for a QB next year already, let him be the QB that might make some mistakes but can take us all the way. Is Hoyer going to be a Drew Brees and throw 40 TD's and only 10 INT and 300yds/game every week? Probably not. But if he can go out there and minimize mistakes and keep us in the game every week (with hopefully a continuing strong rushing game) then by all means, we need him to stay at the 1.

The Eli thing was just saying that even with a "bad" QB, you can still get there with D, rushing, luck.

 

[AZ_]

In no way was I comparing him to Eli (myself), I was just saying how so many people are jumping on the "let's bash Hoyer" bandwagon and calling for a QB next year already, let him be the QB that might make some mistakes but can take us all the way. Is Hoyer going to be a Drew Brees and throw 40 TD's and only 10 INT and 300yds/game every week? Probably not. But if he can go out there and minimize mistakes and keep us in the game every week (with hopefully a continuing strong rushing game) then by all means, we need him to stay at the 1.

The Eli thing was just saying that even with a "bad" QB, you can still get there with D, rushing, luck.

Then you should be searching for that type of production until you find it, or get as close to it as humanly possible.

The search for it shouldn't stop until you get there, in this league.

 

[Kbiz]

Right now, as the team is made up, we obviously do not need a game changing QB but rather a game "manager."

Not to sound cliche but it's grossly obvious, when watching other teams how poor our WR corp is compared to the rest of the league. Now, obviously that changes with a healthy Cameron and an added Gordon but based on what i've seen the past two weeks, Hoyer fits that "manager" role...for now.

He has made some errant throws... some throws that could've been picked... some throws that left me scratching my head BUT...he has been serviceable. I still do not believe he is the answer but with the way this team is set up, he can succeed as long as he does "enough".

That throw yesterday to Hawkins was a turrible throw but it still was enough for us to win. With that being said, i do not think it hurts this team to throw Manziel in as long as we use his strengths to our advantage. I'd love to see Manziel used a bit more in the red zone where his play making ability truly becomes crucial to us but frankly, until Hoyer shits the bed, i don't imagine we will be seeing much of Manziel unless he his handing the ball off, which IMO, he has shown that he is better than that, to say the least.

 

[SixPACK]

Then you should be searching for that type of production until you find it, or get as close to it as humanly possible.

The search for it shouldn't stop until you get there, in this league.

If we are also going to go that route, last year Russell Wilson only threw for 300yds+ only twice.

 

[AZ_]

If we are also going to go that route, last year Russell Wilson only threw for 300yds+ only twice.

Russell Wilson is in his second year and has a ton of growth potential left. He could be that guy someday.

Not sure the same could be said for Hoyer.

 

[Binkster]

Russell Wilson is in his second year and has a ton of growth potential left. He could be that guy someday.

Not sure the same could be said for Hoyer.

Yeah, Kurt Warner never made strides or marked improvement as he aged, either.

 

[upper lip]

That throw yesterday to Hawkins was a turrible throw

WHAT!?!? he did exactly what he needed to do! He saw Hawkins standing there WIDE OPEN with 3 guys barreling towards him and he lofted it up there for Hawkins to get it.. You just need to get air under it and make sure Hawkins gets the ball. And hd threw it while about to get it. I'm confused at how you can criticize that play.. If hoyer tried to zip it there than he's an idiot

 

[Soda]

WHAT!?!? he did exactly what he needed to do! He saw Hawkins standing there WIDE OPEN with 3 guys barreling towards him and he lofted it up there for Hawkins to get it.. You just need to get air under it and make sure Hawkins gets the ball. And hd threw it while about to get it. I'm confused at how you can criticize that play.. If hoyer tried to zip it there than he's an idiot

I think he just means that if Hawkins is hit in stride, he can stroll into the endzone for the TD. Criticizing that play is a bit microscopic a take, but I think that's what he/she was saying.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Maybe so and your point is very logical but that doesn't give me any better feeling for him. Shorter QBs have a distinct disadvantage and it's just one of a 1,000 reasons why I wouldn't have touched Manziel with a 40 foot pole in the draft. There is no denying his instincts are to run away and make a spectacular play. His results in college were wildly positive however; my fear are those spectacular plays will not be as beneficial for his NFL team.

Well, you may be entirely right, and it may not work out. I'm just saying that for him, that may have been the smarter play. And maybe for other guys too -- there really isn't an angle I've seen that lets us see how good the throwing lane was at the point he checked down to Agnew.

Throwing lanes get overlooked quite often, I think. A guy looks open to people in the stands, but to the QB, there's some dude with his arms up at the wrong moment, and the window closes.

 

[SixPACK]

Russell Wilson is in his second year and has a ton of growth potential left. He could be that guy someday.

Not sure the same could be said for Hoyer.

People on this board and Browns fans in general are so quick to judge. If you aren't one of the best QB's in your first year, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. I agree with Wilson on time, but he did not have a spectacular year (a good one..) and they won. Their D was amazing, our D is getting there (still making stupid mistakes/get lazy). Our running game is coming together. We don't NEED a star QB, but of course it wouldn't hurt to have one.

But I do not think it's out of question for Hoyer to throw for 3400yds, 27TD's, sub-10INT's. He's definitely not a rusher, so he will have to throw for more than that. But that is a good enough QB with a team with a rushing game/capable DEF.

Look at the Chargers yesterday against SEA. Held the ball for 40 some odd minutes. If we can use our rushing game to keep the ball most of the time, our D can get stops. Hoyer just can't make dumb mistakes. and we need to get our good receivers back. (I know Rivers threw for 3 TD's, the point is our rushing game could take some pressure off Hoyer...)

 

[upper lip]

I think he just means that if Hawkins is hit in stride, he can stroll into the endzone for the TD. Criticizing that play is a bit microscopic a take, but I think that's what he/she was saying.

Andrew was slowly backing up flailing his arms while a 7 man blitz was coming at hoyer. He lobbed it up there for Drew to get it. That's what you expect him to do. If Hawkins was in full stride with a man a few yards behinds him then yes hoyer would have needed to lead him.. But that wasn't the case