Johnny Manziel: Swan Won't Return His Calls

[Randolphkeys]

Same here. I'd like to know what we have in Manziel, because Hoyer has not yet shown that he's good enough to put to bed the question of getting a better QB.

You are impossible. Luckily most Cleveland sports fans have stopped listening to stuff like this.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You are impossible. Luckily most Cleveland sports fans have stopped listening to stuff like this.

You seriously think that Hoyer has conclusively proven that he's the long-term answer at QB, and that we shouldn't even consider picking one up in the upcoming draft? Damn, you're an easy guy to please.

I'm not sure what you're watching, but I'm seeing an average QB. And that's fine, and means that if he continue performing at that level, there isn't an urgent need to upgrade.

At the same time, teams are always looking to upgrade even average positions if the right talent is available, and QB is clearly the most important position on the field. If you can upgrade an average QB to a guy who projects as a franchise QB, why wouldn't you do that?

Again, maybe Hoyer will have proven by the end of this season that he's at the level of a Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Brady, Luck, etc., or that's where he reasonably projects to be within the next couple of years. But I don't think it's being "impossible" to say that hasn't yet happened.

 

[Chris]

Hes definitely playing above average. But I'm not ready to hand him the reins for the future quite yet nor do I think anybody should be. That is just foolish.

 

[Randolphkeys]

There is a QB who has proven, so far, that he can be a solid starter and make difficult throws from the pocket. There is a young project QB who is learning to become a professional behind him, some think he can be a top echelon QB if he improves from the neck up.

The defense is porous and the only contributing wide receivers who will be back on the roster next year are 5'8 or shorter. That and the guy who can't stop from being suspended.

I would be disappointed if the Browns use a first rounder on a QB at this point.

 

[Chris]

There is a QB who has proven, so far, that he can be a solid starter and make difficult throws from the pocket. There is a young project QB who is learning to become a professional behind him, some think he can be a top echelon QB if he improves from the neck up.

The defense is porous and the only contributing wide receivers who will be back on the roster next year are 5'8 or shorter. That and the guy who can't stop from being suspended.

I would be disappointed if the Browns use a first rounder on a QB at this point.

If its Mariota...i will have to disagree. But i think we will be too good to get him.

Is the defense porous because of lack of talent? Not so sure adding more high picks to it us going to fix things. Dat Mingo pick....fucking reprehensible.

 

[chrisrich91]

Hopefully Romo returns to form and starts throwing games away for the 'Boys. Then we need to be calling Jerry morning, noon, and night offering Manziel for a 1st. You'll catch him hammered at some point and he'll pull the trigger. Realistically though, I think we can net a 2nd rounder for him from a couple teams.

Then go get a legitimate QB prospect to learn from Hoyer. Perfect mentor who also doesn't hurt us on the field while the kid gets up to speed.

 

[Randolphkeys]

If its Mariota...i will have to disagree. But i think we will be too good to get him.

Is the defense porous because of lack of talent? Not so sure adding more high picks to it us going to fix things. Dat Mingo pick....fucking reprehensible.

To get Mariotta, the Browns will likely have to trade multiple #1s, additionally, I don't think Oakland can afford to pass on him. The Browns would have to fall apart to a greater degree than they fell apart last year to outbid the teams desperate for a QB. I don't know how a Browns fan could actively wish for this scenario.

 

[Chris]

To get Mariotta, the Browns will likely have to trade multiple #1s, additionally, I don't think Oakland can afford to pass on him. The Browns would have to fall apart to a greater degree than they fell apart last year to outbid the teams desperate for a QB. I don't know how a Browns fan could actively wish for this scenario.

Yeah, like i said, it wont happen.

I like what I see from Hoyer I think they should roll with him and draft somebody later on down the line if they aren't convinced Johnny is the guy.

 

[Tornicade]

you got 3 rookies on the depth chart.. overall you got 15 players who have less than 4 years experience on the roster .
also Mingo is still developing and he was pretty solid in his new role.
Gilbert has shown alot of potential . but is also prone to making rookie mistakes which have hurt the team.

but whats relevant to Manziel. is the offensive line with 2 pro bowlers and a rookie who is currently ranked as the leagues 6th best guard not bad for a guy whose never actually played that position before.

The zone blocking scheme is pretty top rate. Compared to last season it really shows how a line can grow and how one hole can make the entire unit look bad.
lets not forget about the the running game with three backs who can start and take full advantage of what the line is opening.

The passing game is thriving with 7-12 yard routes. more orientated to moving the chains than the big play. frequently seeing 3rd and 6. in fact the browns have had 28 plays at 3rd and 6 or better compared to 21 plays 3rd and 7 or more.

The passing game is significantly better from shotgun or no huddle.while ho hum from under center or huddle.

league average is 7.12 yards to go . The browns are at 6.74. 26th in the league at converting 3rd downs of 20 or fewer yards.

Meanwhile Hoyer on 3rd downs is getting 4.8 yards a pass at 58% for a 78.1 Quarterback rating.

just out of curiosity i checked hoyer on 3rd downs 10 yards or less.

50% passing. 3.7 per play. 70 rating on 30 attempts.

the team can only get by on wearing down the defense and sticking tot he run while playing behind for so long.. even now its only netted them the same record they started off with last season.

plenty of reasons Manziel most likely will earn some playing time at some point this season.

and lets not forget every backup quarterback is one snap from going into the game at any time.

 

[Tornicade]

Hopefully Romo returns to form and starts throwing games away for the 'Boys. Then we need to be calling Jerry morning, noon, and night offering Manziel for a 1st. You'll catch him hammered at some point and he'll pull the trigger. Realistically though, I think we can net a 2nd rounder for him from a couple teams.

Then go get a legitimate QB prospect to learn from Hoyer. Perfect mentor who also doesn't hurt us on the field while the kid gets up to speed.

Since 2005.
Cowboys is 60-21 when his team rushes for more than 100 yards.
Cowboys are 27-44 when the team rushes less than 100 yards.
to put that in persepctive. only 6 teams have had more games at a 100 yards or less since that time frame and only the Packers and Colts were able to win more than 50% of their games in that scenario.

Meanwhile only 4 teams had a better winning percentage than the Cowboys when getting more than a 100 yards rushing. while 20 teams had more games played with a 100 or more yards rushing.

Cowboys know full well that their QB is not the issue in Dallas.

 

[Juice is Loose]

@Tornicade If the Browns are sitting at 6-3 (hypothetical) and working towards a playoff spot, what purpose would Manziel serve getting any snaps? I don't see other teams in any previous season vying for a playoff spot, putting their back up QB in. Browns want a winning culture, and with Hoyer we have a better chance at achieving that RIGHT NOW. I want to win right now, and I'm sure 99% of Cleveland does as well. But we have that 1% of Cleverlanders just begging to see Johnny. Why? Who cares, I want to WIN GAMES! not see what we have in the future.

 

[Tornicade]

@Tornicade If the Browns are sitting at 6-3 (hypothetical) and working towards a playoff spot, what purpose would Manziel serve getting any snaps? I don't see other teams in any previous season vying for a playoff spot, putting their back up QB in. Browns want a winning culture, and with Hoyer we have a better chance at achieving that RIGHT NOW. I want to win right now, and I'm sure 99% of Cleveland does as well. But we have that 1% of Cleverlanders just begging to see Johnny. Why? Who cares, I want to WIN GAMES! not see what we have in the future.

lets have that discussion when the browns are 6-3

 

[Clevelandfan15]

The only way I see Manziel playing this year is if Hoyer gets dinged up and misses a game or two. In that case he could steal the job if he comes in and wins and he is actually making substantial improvement in practice. I find it hard to believe that they would just pull Hoyer for Manziel this year because I think he will continue to play well in Shanahan's scheme.

It would have to be somewhat similar to what happened in San Francisco. Alex Smith was 6-2 completing 70% of his passes with 13 TD's and 5 interceptions when he got hurt. He really didn't do anything to get benched besides getting hurt. Colin Kaepernick came in, won a few games, kept the job and took them all the way to the Super Bowl.

I was skeptical when the 49ers did that because they were Super Bowl caliber, and 6-2 with a veteran QB leading them and he was't losing them games. Turns out that they were right to go with Kaepernick. He was the QB that their front office and coaching staff drafted and believed that he was the QB of the future.

Smith was more proven and probably playing better than Hoyer when he lost his job. Manziel has less experience than what Kapernick had , but he like Kaepernick was handpicked by management and coaching who believes in him. Manziel will be the guy next year because Hoyer will cost to much to keep.

I don't see the Browns giving Hoyer 20-30 million guaranteed when they are the same people who basically used a 1st and a 3rd on Manziel the year before. I don't see Hoyer taking a big discount because he has to get paid. I also don't see them taking another QB in next years draft. They will have options going into next year, but they have to see what they have in Manziel. It wouldn't be wise to trade him (unless you can get Mariota) either. I do hope Hoyer continues to play well and lead the Browns to playoffs and make it hard on Ray Farmer and company.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

There is a QB who has proven, so far, that he can be a solid starter and make difficult throws from the pocket.

If he didn't improve significantly from here through the end of the season, and remained basically the same guy who got the game winning drive against the Titans but looked like crap in crunch time against the Ravens, are you okay with that long-term?

 

[godfather]

Torn still hates Hoyer, for reasons I still don't really know. I don't know how you can champion Brandon Weeden, and be doubtful of Hoyer.

The two don't compute, regardless of how good Hoyer is, he looks like Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Peyton Manning combined, compared to Brain Fart Weeden.