Kevin Love - Miami Ground Machine

[Birdy89]

Love has become bosh as far as criticism goes

He's not found his place and part of blame is on blatt

He's a powerful offensive weapon when used correctly....

He's alot worse than Bosh. At least Bosh played defense.

Love has been marginalized on offense and can't even help out on the other side of the court. It stinks.

 

[roozy]

An optimistic Kevin Love in the USA Today piece on the Cavs:

"We know that things are going to work out," Cavaliers forward Kevin Love told USA TODAY Sports. "I know that we have a lot of talent here, guys who can do a lot of different things, so I tend to look at that more than the negative stuff...

You saw what J.R. can bring (in scoring 27 points on 11 of 23 shooting against the Warriors). Whether he starts or comes off the bench, he can fill it up. Shump, he can add a lot, especially defensively, he brings a very high energy there and is a big player. With T-Mo (Mozgov), I've never played with a guy of that size and you saw a little bit of what he'll be able to bring tonight (Nine points, eight rebounds, one block in 26 minutes)."

"This has been a hell of a process here with these guys out," Love said in our chat. "The last four, five, six, seven games – I can't remember how long it has been – but we've dropped four straight, and it has been trying. But we know we have to get everybody healthy, and when we have a full roster, we're a totally different team, so we have to continue...

If this would have been my second or third year (in Minnesota), I probably would have been very upset and not talking to anybody, but I know that we have a lot of talent and we're going to be able to make some stuff happen – especially with the moves that we made. They'll help us."

Well at least he has a positive attitude instead of acting like a diva as he did in Minnesota.

 

[MirORich]

He's alot worse than Bosh. At least Bosh played defense.

Love has been marginalized on offense and can't even help out on the other side of the court. It stinks.

How's Bosh's defense working out for the Heat without LeBron?

Look, Love is underperformed slightly so far. It's part on him, its part on a substantial 5 FGA per game, part on Blatt, part on the guards. Part of it comes from him until now not being paired on the court with an actual center.

He is playing nowhere near as poorly as you and others are continually harping about.

 

[gratefuldead]

He's alot worse than Bosh. At least Bosh played defense.

Love has been marginalized on offense and can't even help out on the other side of the court. It stinks.

Bosh became a good team defender...people have such short memories

Everyone was saying the heat fucked up and should flip bosh for a center who could defend. Everyone was saying he was soft, couldn't protect the rim, was a turnstile, no one feared going to the rim against him. Then he became a great team defender and an integral part of what the heat did.

 

[Tlyons]

Posting has been as disappointing as the cavs this season.

 

[LeShaq]

It never fails. We lose a game and people start whining about "Love this" and "Love that."

This is why I rely on stats (as well as eye test) to sort through the idiocy.

Before I get into the stats, let me first just say that the way we are going away from Love in the 4th quarter is criminal. It is crazy. Blatt better figure this out quick. This team is immature and just plain unskilled and lacking intelligence if it is not going to Love in the 4th quarter.

Stats from the game.

Love 17/14/1 on 11 FGA
Smith 27/05/1 on 23 FGA
Kyrie 23/06/5 on 23 FGA

Points per shot (PPS)
Love 1.55
Smith 1.17
Kyrie 1.00

Simple efficiency (SE) (larger number better)
Love 27
Smith 19
Kyrie 20

Offensive and defensive rating

Love 138/115 (+23)
Smith 108/121 (-13)
Kyrie 103/114 (-11)

Someone mentioned Draymond Green. How did he look?

10/11/8 on 13 FGA
PPS = 0.77
SE = 24
Ratings = 102/90 (+12)


Any other questions?

Here's how to understand how good Love's PPS in the game was. If this were Love's figure for the season up to this point, it would be 5th best among qualified players in the NBA. And this is the freaking guy we can't find shots for in the 4th quarter while Delly, JR and Irving chuck up bricks? Ridiculous.

Someone mentioned Love doesn't seem strong. Actually he's extremely strong, but most of his strength is in his legs. That's how a smallish and unathletic player like him can get so many rebounds. Because he muscles guys and fights them off with his strength.

Love is still being wasted. It's getting better, but this "freeze Love out in the 4th" nonsense better end fast. Or we will lose more games.

Also of note. Love drew 5 fouls on the Warriors. Only Tristan (6) drew more. Love may get his shot blocked sometimes, but he also draws a ton of fouls on post ups. If we would go to him more we could be getting the opposition bigs in foul trouble easier.

Blatt needs to figure out a way to blend his Euro Ball weave offense stuff with a bit more posting up I think. The team must, must, must use Love better and more. I have no idea why Blatt and the team can't see this, but they better figure it out fast.

Finally, can someone explain to me how a "soft" undersized forward grabs 14 rebounds in a game (game's leading rebounder)? I want to hear that one.

 

[priceFTW]

Love looked like a monster because he was surrounded by no one who was going to take shots from him. Rubio? No. Brewer? No. Pekovic? No. Wesley Johnson? Nope. Kevin Martin was about it.

This is just not right or true. There's a reason Love was so highly valued despite his defensive limitations.

How does what you say explain the fact that he was efficient with a 59% TS percentage? If there weren't any other options, wouldn't opposing teams gameplan against him to make him inefficient? Michael Jordan had only one title season in which he had a higher TS%. Putting up that number if you're the key offensive cog is NOT EASY.

Here are ALL the players who had a usage% of 28.8% or higher, PER of 26.9 or higher, TS% of 59% or higher and scored 26 points per game:

Lebron James 6 times
Michael Jordan 4 times
Larry Bird 3 times
Shaq O'Neal 2 times
Karl Malone 2 times
Kevin Durant 2 times
Charles Barkley once
David Robinson once
Kevin Love LAST FUCKING YEAR.

Look at that list. This a list of all time elite talents. If it were simply him "getting all the shots," how was he so damn efficient? if it's so easy, where all the chuckers?

He also had a win share per 48 of .245. That would be 18th best among the players listed above in the respective years mentioned. On that list, the worst teams are Barkley's 1991 team with 44 wins and Jordan's 47 win 1988 team.

Lastly, you can say, "Well, if he puts all this up, why isn't his team winning?" Last year, he was +5.9 per 100 possessions on court. Minny was better with him on than him off. He had a REAL PLUS MINUS that was 12th best in the league. The rest of his team didn't play as well.

Is he likely an all-time great impact player? Maybe not even though these numbers are huge. BUT, he is undoubtedly an offensive talent who has been incredibly efficient despite defenses keying in on him. He will not be a defensive stopper, but used correctly, he can be a key cog on a winning team.

 

[Real Deal]

Posting has been atrocious. Game threads you expect it, everyone rages and cheers, but this site as a whole since the offseason has gotten worse. Even when everything gets figured out you'll still get the complainers saying its too late because we're done in the playoffs.

 

[LeShaq]

Posting has been atrocious

Love is a magnet of criticism, so I'm not surprised. But the amount of rage towards him just does not come close to fitting how he is actually performing I don't think.

I have found in the past (elsewhere on the internet) that people who tend to go overboard in their criticism of Love often don't understand the quantitative value that he brings to a team. Their arguments don't hold up to analysis in other words.

Love is not a perfect player. Far from it. He can be criticized like anyone else.

It's just nice if that criticism bears some relationship to statistical reality. Oftentimes it does not seem to do so.

 

[Walter White]

Go back through the first few pages on this thread. Remember how excited we were? He is still that same player, an All Star player. Refocus people. Can't believe how crazy people get during a little losing streak.

 

[6kiss]

You guys can keep posting stats of Love but they mean nothing! Means absolutely nothing since hes now on a winning team and teams actually care to guard him. The wolves sucked, even with his great numbers. Teams didnt care about guarding him. Its not the coach, its not the chemistry, its just Love being Love. Not many post moves, streaky shooter, and a rebounder with not much impact. Remember those awesome numbers Larry hughes put up in Washington? Oh hey, look how he turned out. Remember those awesome numbers Jamison put up on the Wizards before trading to the Cavs, well damn, look how that turned out. Players are not the same players on different teams.

 

[DatDudeZ3]

The reason we have the least amount of fouls called against us is because we are not a physical defense whatsoever and that is part of our problem... We had no rim protector or guys challenging shots around the rim before Mozgov so of course we didn't foul very much and that I believe is part of the reason we are not good on defense. You must be physical on defense and make teams feel you and not have a cake-walk to the rim.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Is this a result of refs favoring us? I would say its more a result of us not being tough...we're soft as shit right now.

I don't think the refs are favoring anybody. I guess I'm in the minority of people that think the refs are just humans trying to do an incredibly difficult job. There's only three of them trying to keep track of ten of the best athletes in the entire world; mistakes are going to happen.

I've read when the NBA officials review past games to grade the refs they find they make the correct call on about 90% of possessions. IMO that's pretty damn impressive. Sure it sucks when they miss a call, but it's better to accept it and move on.

My best guess? The biggest reason we're the least penalized team in the NBA falls on having bigs that don't contest many shots. Both Love and TT, the two bigs who've seen the most minutes so far this year, prefer getting into prime rebounding positioning rather than committing to stop ball penetration.

Informative, but it doesn't change the fact that as I see it Love gets fouled more often and harder than anyone and doesn't get a lot of those calls. In fact it seems more likely he'll get a call on a tap of the arm as he's shooting than getting slammed upside his head. The referees just let it keep going until he gets a minor injury.

Just my opinion on this: Love draws most of his fouls when he beats the defense to an offensive rebound or catches a pass after a smart move off the ball. A lot of his post up opportunities end with a tough shot that's typically well contested by the defense; I think a lot of fans contribute non-calls in this situations to poor officiating.

 

[Walter White]

You guys can keep posting stats of Love but they mean nothing! Means absolutely nothing since hes now on a winning team and teams actually care to guard him. The wolves sucked, even with his great numbers. Teams didnt care about guarding him. Its not the coach, its not the chemistry, its just Love being Love. Not many post moves, streaky shooter, and a rebounder with not much impact. Remember those awesome numbers Larry hughes put up in Washington? Oh hey, look how he turned out. Remember those awesome numbers Jamison put up on the Wizards before trading to the Cavs, well damn, look how that turned out. Players are not the same players on different teams.

Comparing Love to Hughes and Jamison has to be a bannable offense. This is getting ridiculous.

Teams actually did care to guard Love when he was on the Wolves. In fact, that is the only player they had to worry about guarding and could focus on him even more and look at the numbers he still put up.

 

[6kiss]

Comparing Love to Hughes and Jamison has to be a bannable offense. This is getting ridiculous.

Teams actually did care to guard Love when he was on the Wolves. In fact, that is the only player they had to worry about guarding and could focus on him even more and look at the numbers he still put up.

Ridiculous to homers yes but what doesnt make sense? Both players put up great numbers on different teams. The point still stands.