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Kyrie Irving

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I think Mao Mao was getting at was more about offense. Is he going to grow out of that Kobe mindset to be a natural PG? A lot of people are bringing up age but Kobe is still Kobe and I haven't seen any improvement in his PG skills in now 4 years in the league. Guys like Magic, Lebron, Kidd, Rubio seemed to just have it even when they were rookies in terms of vision/playmaking.

This is going to be a critical question for us: if he's a natural 2 guard on offense which I suspect he will be for the rest of his career then 1) Lebron or possibly at times Shumpert??? is going to be our PG for the foreseeable future 2) We'll have to tailor our roster with players like Eric Snow and Shaun Livingston who can guard the 2 spot on defense but play the 1 on offense.

I'm not really confident that Kyrie can conform to being a "natural PG"; I think his mindset today is to contribute as much as he can on the offensive side of the board to keep the Cavs out of trouble, only the lack of playmaking is doing just that. No one respects the rest of the floor.

Though it might not have yielded much, looking at what is going on with the Lakers (still a lottery team), and particularly the leash put on Kobe makes me wonder if Byron Scott could just have not been fired, even if it meant the same result. I think what he's done with the Lakers (which is essentially Old Kobe and some BUMS now that Randle is out for the season) is commendable. I certainly was not a fan of the switch from Byron to Mike Brown Mark II.
 
Can we get Eric Bledsoe?

Honestly, trade anyone as far as I'm concerned, minus LeBron and Mozgov. I'm over this whole team.
I've always wanted Bledsoe. He's a great 2 way player and better playmaker. Not a better offensive talent but he makes it up with his intangibles. I'd package Kyrie and TT for Bledsoe and one of the Morris twins or Bledsoe and Green
 
I think Mao Mao was getting at was more about offense. Is he going to grow out of that Kobe mindset to be a natural PG? A lot of people are bringing up age but Kobe is still Kobe and I haven't seen any improvement in his PG skills in now 4 years in the league. Guys like Magic, Lebron, Kidd, Rubio seemed to just have it even when they were rookies in terms of vision/playmaking.

This is going to be a critical question for us: if he's a natural 2 guard on offense which I suspect he will be for the rest of his career then 1) Lebron or possibly at times Shumpert??? is going to be our PG for the foreseeable future 2) We'll have to tailor our roster with players like Eric Snow and Shaun Livingston who can guard the 2 spot on defense but play the 1 on offense.
Or, the Cavs realize this is not 1975 anymore and not base an offense around antiquated positions and roles?

Point guard is the most overrated position in sports. Smart teams such as the Spurs, Mavericks, and to a lesser extent Heat figured out that teams need to diversify risk and not rely on a 6' guard to create offense, because what happens when you see the Tony Allens of the world in the playoffs? Instead, the team as a whole creates open looks through movement, passing and unselfish play. That's not to say that a PG could not do well in such a system, just that good PG play is an effect of the system and not the cause. See Curry, Teague and Lowry this year.

I would much rather have a player such as Irving in a movement offense than a player like Rubio or Kidd in a traditional PG-centric offense. Irving is such an offensive threat that the defense must always dedicate resources to guarding him. Now when the ball moves around effectively and someone gets an open look because the defense had to lean toward Irving, he doesn't get the assist and isn't considered a "playmaker." But the open shot wouldn't have happened if not for Irving, and to that I say, what's the difference?

I believe Blatt was brought in to implement such an offense, with Kyrie playing the Tony Parker role. They are obviously not running it because of injury/trades/player buy-in and Kyrie is all of a sudden being asked to improvise an entire offense to predictably disastrous results. He is not free from criticism and has room for improvement, such as keeping his head up when dribbling and opting for kickouts over pullups. But I believe his value to this team will again show when Lebron is back. Not because Lebron is some kind of savior, but because we will hopefully be running some semblance of Blatt's offense which will let Kyrie play the role he prepared for all year. The last few pages of this thread are going to look awfully foolish.
 
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I agree with nate that a good analogy for irving is parker a guy who has never averaged more then 8 assists for a season. His offensive focus has always been to attack and this is what irving excels at. As the team hopefully stabilises and some sort of continuity in rotation and offense emerges (fingers crossed) hopefully he will be able to find guys when the help converges and add a drive and kick game
 
Can we trade Kyrie for Rubio? He is like the inverse of Kyrie, Rubio's shooting is as bad as Kyrie's defense and passing.
 
Rubio is an elite defender?

Thats news.

I'll pass on one of the worst shooting point guards in NBA history

Like I said, he is about as good at shooting as Kyrie is at defense and setting teammates up. Actually Kyrie and Rubio would be a great back court together.
 
Or, the Cavs realize this is not 1975 anymore and not base an offense around antiquated positions and roles?

Point guard is the most overrated position in sports. Smart teams such as the Spurs, Mavericks, and to a lesser extent Heat figured out that teams need to diversify risk and not rely on a 6' guard to create offense, because what happens when you see the Tony Allens of the world in the playoffs? Instead, the team as a whole creates open looks through movement, passing and unselfish play. That's not to say that a PG could not do well in such a system, just that good PG play is an effect of the system and not the cause. See Curry, Teague and Lowry this year.

I would much rather have a player such as Irving in a movement offense than a player like Rubio or Kidd in a traditional PG-centric offense. Irving is such an offensive threat that the defense must always dedicate resources to guarding him. Now when the ball moves around effectively and someone gets an open look because the defense had to lean toward Irving, he doesn't get the assist and isn't considered a "playmaker." But the open shot wouldn't have happened if not for Irving, and to that I say, what's the difference?

I believe Blatt was brought in to implement such an offense, with Kyrie playing the Tony Parker role. They are obviously not running it because of injury/trades/player buy-in and Kyrie is all of a sudden being asked to improvise an entire offense to predictably disastrous results. He is not free from criticism and has room for improvement, such as keeping his head up when dribbling and opting for kickouts over pullups. But I believe his value to this team will again show when Lebron is back. Not because Lebron is some kind of savior, but because we will hopefully be running some semblance of Blatt's offense which will let Kyrie play the role he prepared for all year. The last few pages of this thread are going to look awfully foolish.

Not really sure how this goes against what people are saying in terms of team construction with regards to Irving. SA has two excellent passers in Ginobili and Diaw alongside a post presence in Duncan where they run their offense thru. Miami of course had Lebron. The Lakers kept the corpse of Derrick Fisher around for years just so he could reign in Kobe. And honestly who cares how much attention a player gets when he doesn't pass the ball to take advantage of that attention!

Using those examples for our team then Lebron is going to be a primary playmaker or we're going to have to add players like Ginobili and Diaw (or going back to Scottie Pippen) who can allow a scoring guard do what they are best at. There is nothing contradictory with pointing out that Irving is not going to lead the team to a title playing a Rondo/Kidd like role but can still be a big factor in winning a title as playing more as a 2.
 
This thread is toxic.... Kyrie will always be a score first point guard, and that is fine by me because he is a great score first guard, I'd rather let him be a score-first point guard and maximize his amazing offensive talent than make him be a "traditional point guard" and not use all of his offensive arsenal and scoring ability.
 
Andre Miller's corpse is a better passer than Kyrie.

So, it is a good thing the Cavs have James to handle the ball. Kyrie, score.
 
So if LeBron was undermining Blatt with his play to get him fired I want someone to tell me what in the hell Irving was doing tonight.

or last season, or the season before that. Kyrie is an amazing finisher but its obvious that he has no interest in playing defense.
 
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