Love/Wiggins Trade Revisited

[Baseline Runner]

Preferring Parker or Embiid is not a talent evaluation issue. SPeaker was headed for ROY. Embodied could get it like Griffin did.

The point was that the vast majority of people drastically underrated Wiggins potential on this forum when it was clear since he was about 16 that he was a future NBA star in the making. Even after we drafted him there was a lack of enthusiasm that there should have been for a hyped, number one draft pick.

 

[supermario21]

Going back to look at the Love Safari thread, a full 10.6% of respondents (including myself) were not interested in trading for Love this year. Another 31.2% of voters said to revisit trade options later in the year (presumably deadline time). Only about 8% of voters picked options involving Andrew Wiggins.

So it was reasonably divided, a full 42% were either not interested in Love or wanted to play things out awhile, and most people were only really comfortable with parting with packages such as Waiters,Thompson/Bennett, and a pick or picks.


Again, I want Love to succeed here. But I cannot help but say that I've been underwhelmed with him so far. Everyone is going to have to sacrifice to make this Big 3 work.

 

[Zen]

The point was that the vast majority of people drastically underrated Wiggins potential on this forum when it was clear since he was about 16 that he was a future NBA star in the making. Even after we drafted him there was a lack of enthusiasm that there should have been for a hyped, number one draft pick.

I really don't think he was underrated at all. There was healthy debate between the three. As another poster pointed out Parker was well on his way to being ROY before blowing his knee out, and before his injury Embiid was an even more attractive option than either of them.

It was simply a strong draft.

I understand the sentiment of waiting and snagging him at the deadline. But, if there is one thing this season has showed you it is that continuity and chemistry is key. You wait to make the trade you are essentially delaying our already limited Lebron window by another year.

 

[Dylan Windler's Mom]

Going back to look at the Love Safari thread, a full 10.6% of respondents (including myself) were not interested in trading for Love this year. Another 31.2% of voters said to revisit trade options later in the year (presumably deadline time). Only about 8% of voters picked options involving Andrew Wiggins.

So it was reasonably divided, a full 42% were either not interested in Love or wanted to play things out awhile, and most people were only really comfortable with parting with packages such as Waiters,Thompson/Bennett, and a pick or picks.

I think the majority were fine with trading for Love. No one was excited at the thought of having to involve Andrew Wiggins though.

 

[Lazor]

I personally wasn't a fan of the trade and thought it would have been smarter to trade for him later in the year when Twolves hands were tied with him leaving and them sucking. Thought we gave up too much defense adding him and was more worried about adding a top inside presence at the time. If he leaves after this year we definitely lost this trade and it will go down as one of the worse trades ever. With that said. I still think Love is a very good basketball player. Maybe not an elite PF like some thought here but definitely a top player at his position and he is capable of playing better and finding his place on this team.

We just need to quit worrying. We have made some great additions since the season started and when our team starts to get healthy we are gonna be real scary. You know how many times Marion was wide open in the corner when he was playing PF on an ISO and I just wished it was Love last night? Or the thought of seeing Shumpert in crunch time and not Delly? Please just be patience and give this a couple weeks

 

[I'mWithDan]

Still would have had a ton of assets to fix the hole without trading Wiggins. We could gave traded for guys like Brandon Wright, Mozgov, Jeff Green, Thad Young or even still traded for Klove at the deadline with giving up Wiggins. The front office should have been more patient. What did we accomplish by having Love at the start of training camp? It's Jan 17, 2015 and we're still a mess.

I'm trying to understand why us being a mess is a function of the Kevin Love trade? With how the season has played out, we honestly may have paid MORE for Love by waiting. Our front court depth sucks without Love and the AV injury would have killed us in trade discussions IMO. We would have been far more desperate at that point. Say LeBron is sitting out with nagging injuries and we're carting out KI and a bunch of nothing......how does that help us as we're trying to convince Minnesota to trade us their best player for less?

Waiting could have also introduced Wiggins just bombing out trying to play on a contender....with more pressure, etc. Or how playing out of position a majority of the time (at the 2) could have killed his confidence. I'm not saying that's a definite but what if he just doesn't play well with fewer offensive opportunities? Couldn't that have lowered his trade value?

The only reason this is even a discussion is because Love got off to a slow start and has been bothered by back problems. Overall it's just hindsight IMO. The price we paid for an All-Star player in his prime was not that steep. Wiggins is finally starting to perform like a #1 overall pick should. Him realizing his potential doesn't make the trade worse. The expectation was that he would be as good as he is.

With that said, it is still a trade I make every time. Known for unknown is a good strategy....anyone who wants to debate that is just dead wrong IMO. Just because it may not work out in one instance doesn't prove anything....all it does is underscore that luck can sometimes go against you.

 

[wuck]

We also have only had to watch Bennett play once this year. There has to be something said for that.

 

[Baseline Runner]

That's true of the poll, which was taken early, although sentiments changed later in terms of the volume of posters who indicated they were willing to give up Wiggins. That happened in part because of disappointment about Wiggins' summer league performance.

I'm not saying there was unanimous support for the Love trade -- definitely not. But more posters were questioning Wiggins as time went on. Perhaps that was short-sighted. We'll see.

I would have much preferred to keep Wiggins (and that extra Miami pick continues to bother me) but I don't think that "just waiting" for the deadline or "holding out on Saunders" was a viable strategy if the Cavs really wanted Love, wanted him for enough time to mesh with teammates this year, and wanted the best chance to re-sign him. Sure, a trade while giving up less would have been ideal. That's been true of many trades of the Griffin era....

At this point, the Cavs have to figure out ways to use Love in more productive ways. There's no going back.

One of the benefits of waiting is that we would have more time to see what we have with Wiggins. If Wiggins was performing with us like he is with the Wolves now, the Cavs wouldn't trade him for Love. Even if Wiggins was mediocre to start the season that trade, or one like it, would have still been there based on Wiggins potential alone and the Wolves lack of leverage.

 

[Zen]

One of the benefits of waiting is that we would have more time to see what we have with Wiggins. If Wiggins was performing with us like he is with the Wolves now, the Cavs wouldn't trade him for Love. Even if Wiggins was mediocre to start the season that trade, or one like it, would have still been there based on Wiggins potential alone and the Wolves lack of leverage.

Wiggins is sporting a -1.0 VORP and 12 PER on a team where he is a major option. We absolutely would have entertained trading him for Love if he was playing like he is now.

 

[supermario21]

It would have been fascinating to see how things would have played out. Golden State would have pulled out of the Love sweepstakes once they got off to their hot start. Would Boston have made a run? I could have seen Ainge making a move with all the first rounders he has. Either way, Wiggins would have probably been a requirement. As long as we win a title it is a moot point. Integrating Love should be objective #1 right now but we should still inquire about trades, it would be foolish not to...

 

[I'mWithDan]

One of the benefits of waiting is that we would have more time to see what we have with Wiggins. If Wiggins was performing with us like he is with the Wolves now, the Cavs wouldn't trade him for Love. Even if Wiggins was mediocre to start the season that trade, or one like it, would have still been there based on Wiggins potential alone and the Wolves lack of leverage.

I think this is just faulty logic though.

Does everyone honestly think Wiggins would be getting the 15-18 shots a game he's been putting up? To work through the kinks and slowly develop more confidence? Kevin Love, a guy who averaged 26 points the year before, is being largely ignored....but a rookie playing out of position is going to get to hoist up 5 more shots per game? And continue to be carted out there on a team trying to win a title?

Imagine if he had shot 39% the first two months in Cleveland. Would he have been benched at some point? He'd have been all over SC and pundits would be roasting him as a bust. His confidence would likely have spiraled out of control and he could have been damaged goods, regardless of his potential. He's been afforded the opportunity to grow and work through those pains in relative anonymity. I don't think anyone can quantify how important that has been for his development.

 

[Sebastian]

Ok, good everyone. Lots of new ground covered on this. Great job.

Any thoughts on the Kemp trade?

 

[Futuredome]

Hell, if Embiid never breaks his foot, the Love trade never happens.................

 

[Lee]

I think the Bennett selection set us back far more than the Love trade. We wasted a number 1 pick. We traded a number one (Bennett was worthless at the time of the trade) for Love who for all his shortcomings, is a 17.5/10.5 guy for this team.

The Love trade didn't set us back, taking Bennett is what set us back (way more than Dion or TT selections too)

 

[pinoycavsfan]

if love makes half of the open shots he takes, we wouldnt be talking about wiggins.. yes, love has been relegated being a floor spacer and a jumpshooter, but that's what the offense calls for with lbj on the team.. love hasnt proved we can run an offense through him efficiently.. he's been a stumbling unathletic big that cant defend...