Love/Wiggins Trade Revisited

[BimboColesHair]

Was he?

I think if this really were true, then it would be self-evident this year with them both sharing the same floor.

Yeah. 26.9 PER, Kyrie has yet to come close there. 59.1% TS, Kyrie has yet to come close to that. 14.3 WS, Kyrie has yet to come close to that. .245 WS/48, Kyrie has yet to come close to that. 7.2 OBPM, Kyrie has yet to come close to that. 1.2 DBPM, Kyrie has yet to come close to that. 8.4 BPM, Kyrie has yet to come close to that. 7.3 VORP, Kyrie has yet to come close to that. 120 ORtg, Kyrie is posting a career high 116 right now. 104 DRtg. Kyrie's posting a career best 108 right now.

Yeah, he was better than Kyrie has ever been. Now, Kyrie in a few years...

 

[Bob Loblaw]

He was better because he had better stats?

I'm guessing you don't think that stats can be "empty?" Or....?

He had much better stats and his team won more games in a much tougher conference.

 

[Jscc]

Was he?

I think if this really were true, then it would be self-evident this year with them both sharing the same floor.

Not just last season but also through 2010-2012.

Kevin's not a ball-handler though and has to compete with Kyrie and LeBron, both with usage rates of 26% and 32.6%, respectively. Kevin's usage rate this season is 21.6% compared to his 26-12 Minnesota days' 28%. You also have to compensate for Ricky Rubio's 38.6% assist percentage when he played with Kevin compared to Kyrie's 24.5% this season.

 

[The Wizard of Moz]

It would be hard for me to think of something I care less about when we are going into the playoffs in less than a month as title favorites than whether or not 5 years from now we will regret trading Andrew Wiggins

 

[Chris]

He was better because he had better stats?

I'm guessing you don't think that stats can be "empty?" Or....?

He had much better stats and his team won more games in a much tougher conference.

Pretty much.

I buy empty stats for certain guys to an extent, but not guys that put up 26/12 on great %s and PERs approaching 30.

 

[gourimoko]

I see..

Yeah, I don't think Kevin Love was ever "better" than Kyrie Irving for the same exact reasons he's not better than him today.

 

[Chris]

Kyrie came into the league better than Kevin Love? Or am I misinterpreting.

 

[apolo29]

Anyway.. back to Andrew..

Kid is good. All this "never better than third option blabla" is crap.

He's too young to say anything. But you can definitely see the kid oozes potential. oozes it.

 

[gourimoko]

Kyrie came into the league better than Kevin Love? Or am I misinterpreting.

What I'm saying is that I suspect Kevin Love enjoyed a few years of empty stats and inflated production.

I'm not saying he isn't good. But all the talk of him being the best at his position was a crock of shit.

 

[BimboColesHair]

What I'm saying is that I suspect Kevin Love enjoyed a few years of empty stats and inflated production.

I'm not saying he isn't good. But all the talk of him being the best at his position was a crock of shit.

Will you call Wiggins stats "empty" in this very thread if his teams amount to jack shit the next few years? Will you start arguing as if his rookie year stats right now are "empty"? Or does that just not fit in with your argument for Wiggins over Love.

 

[gourimoko]

Will you call Wiggins stats "empty" in this very thread if his teams amount to jack shit the next few years? Will you start arguing as if his rookie year stats right now are "empty"?

I'm not saying Kevin Love's stats were empty because of his teams success or lack thereof. That's not remotely what I'm saying, otherwise Kyrie's early stats would be empty as well.

But to answer your question, if you had Wiggins averaging 25ppg as the primary option on the Wolves and he were traded to say, Washington and played alongside Durant and Wall; and in this scenario, Wiggins went from 25ppg to 16.9ppg on 4 FG%, then yeah, I'd say his stats deflated.

If Wiggins' stats "deflated," then that means they surely were inflated in the past.

 

[BimboColesHair]

But.. I'm not saying Kevin Love's stats were empty because of his teams success or lack thereof. That's not remotely what I'm saying, otherwise Kyrie's early stats would be empty as well.

Then how else are his stats "empty"? The only empty stats in my book are in the final minutes of a blowout or when a team isn't very good and you are the only option. You can't quantify the 1st one and you just said you aren't talking about team success empty stats...so what the hell are you talking about?

Someone already said it, but you aren't putting up empty stats when you are putting them up as efficiently as Love did his last few years in Minnesota. Same reason I will never say Kyrie put up empty stats. Is it impossible for you to acknowledge how good of a player he was there?

 

[Chris]

What I'm saying is that I suspect Kevin Love enjoyed a few years of empty stats and inflated production.

I'm not saying he isn't good. But all the talk of him being the best at his position was a crock of shit.

Slippery slope you're going down with the empty stats stuff.

What made his stats so empty? Because his team wasn't that great? I mean had they been in the East they may have won 50 games, to be honest.

Kevin Love may not be the best PF but he's in the top 3 at his position for sure.

 

[gourimoko]

Slippery slope you're going down with the empty stats stuff.

I think lots of players seem to statistically overperform when placed as the number one option and focal point of their offense.

I don't know if I'd call that a slippery slope.

What made his stats so empty? Because his team wasn't that great?

No, I already addressed this earlier. I don't think team wins has anything to do with it.

Kevin Love may not be the best PF but he's in the top 3 at his position for sure.

It's hard to say where he was last season, that's kind of my point. But he's definitely not Top 3 this year, nor do I think he'll be next year or the year after that.

 

[BimboColesHair]

I think lots of players seem to statistically overperform when placed as the number one option and focal point of their offense.

I don't know if I'd call that a slippery slope.

Again, hypothetically, when Wiggins, who will most likely be his teams #1 option and focal point of the offense next year, puts up numbers on a team that ends up not being very good, you'll call them empty for the same reasons as well. Right?