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Marreese Speights Has a Player Option

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Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

This administration doesn't seem to be the kind of businessmen that I like to give out player options. They also seem to have a policy of no free agent contracts with guaranteed $$$ after June 2014.

If Speights opts out this summer, I'd expect we'd see a two or three year deal with only one guaranteed year. I don't see the Cavs offering more than $4.5 Mil a year.

Who knows? He might not even opt out.

I definitely think you are right about the player option. Not seen this discussed anywhere, but seems to me a GM who gives a player option is doing so out of weakness. I think Grant is savvy enough to know that Speights isn't such a unique player that he needs to make such a concession.

That said, I just don't see Speights accepting the sort of offer you are describing. I can't imagine he won't get paid at least what he is making now and for a minimum of 3 years guaranteed. But maybe the fact that somewhat comparable players like Hickson and Blair (not to mention Josh Smith, the Utah bigs, and others) will all be hitting the market will reduce his bargaining position. I suspect these sorts of market considerations went into the Cavs' thinking.

I'm not sure I'd say that he "got called on the bluff".

Here is what I think happened.

I'd say that Grants team worked the numbers for a dozen different possibilities for where they see Speights in the next 2 years, decided what was the minimum value they needed to make a deal and the maximum amount of salary they were willing to take back to make the deal work. It seems plausible that all of the trades that brought back a draft pick also involved the Cavs taking back worse contracts than Luke Walton. It also looks like the front office didn't want to deal Speights just to deal Speights, so it wasn't worth backing off their positions to accept total crap. Since they couldn't find the right combination today, they decided rolling the dice with deals next summer was the best choice.

I don't think that Oden has a big affect on the Speights situation right now. Oden's a cheap lottery ticket right now, not a real talent asset.

The Bullshit Whisperer claimed a couple of days ago that the Cavs had one or more offers on the table for Speights that included a late first round pick, but of course any deal would also have included salary coming back (since the team making the trade would almost certainly have been over the cap). And is it worth getting a pick in the 20s along with a ~$5M/yr (or more) salary on an overpaid player who probably doesn't fit the team and is likely on contract through 2014-15? I'd say most on RCF would say no.

I do think the Cavs genuinely like Speights, based in part on Grant's post deadline comments. I also think the Cavs need a big like Speights on the roster next year to compete for a playoff spot, and despite his shortcomings he does actually pair reasonably well with either Thompson or Zeller.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

I also think the Cavs need a big like Speights on the roster next year to compete for a playoff spot, and despite his shortcomings he does actually pair reasonably well with either Thompson or Zeller.

It raises some interesting questions.

First, does Byron put Speights in the starting lineup if Zeller starts to slide again? Now that he's on the team for the rest of the year, seems like a possibility.

Second, if they don't put Speights in the starting lineup, do they find more time for him to play next to Tristan? It's often been an either/or, or they go small with Walton or Miles at the end of games. I guess the question is whether Byron uses some of the rest of the season to evaluate Speights, or whether he puts wins above player/team development.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

Grant not stupid. He would have taken a 1st in the 20-30 range if he thought Speights would walk away at the end of the season.
So he must think he can sign him. Or he is keeping his option open on Speights depending on what Oden does. Or he was holding out for more than a 20-30 1st and got called on the bluff.

not sure which is true.

How about no team offered a first because Speights is just not that good and can opt out end of season anyway?? And not many teams will give a first up for a few month rental.

If teams were offering a first for him, Memphis would not have had to pay us to take the salaries we did.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

How about no team offered a first because Speights is just not that good and can opt out end of season anyway?? And not many teams will give a first up for a few month rental.

If teams were offering a first for him, Memphis would not have had to pay us to take the salaries we did.

I think your point about him being a "rental" certainly had an influence on the trade market. However, I don't fully agree with the bolded part. Memphis gave us a 1st because we were able to take on $7 million in salaries and only send them back $700,000. That's huge cap savings for them, and something that very few if any teams in the NBA could've offered them.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

Memphis gave us a 1st because we were able to take on $7 million in salaries and only send them back $700,000. That's huge cap savings for them, and something that very few if any teams in the NBA could've offered them.

I thought it would be easier to flip Speights than I guess it was. I can see the logic in not trading Speights for a bad contract and only getting a late 2013 first round draft pick. I figured some team like Boston would take the plunge and pony up a 2014 pick with limitted protection. I guess that just wasn't out there.

I think we all agree that it's better when the contracts that the Cavs take back can play (Speights, Ellington) or be good mentors (Walton). Unfortunately it looks like the Cavs would have had to take on too much bad salary to move Speights for a weak first round pick. Always makes sense to get paid to take players that are better than what you give away if you can do that. Or at least get guys back that fit with the team's plans. You don't want to lose flexability to take on crap and only get a luke warm asset in return.

While I thought it made total sense to trade Speights, what we saw probably makes more sense if you just take Speights out of the equation. If Grant thought the first round pick that the Cavs would get wasn't worth what the Cavs would have to take back to get it, then it makes sense not to do the deal, regardless of the Speights situation. There will be a bunch more 2014 & 2015 first round draft picks available for trades after June 27th. Keep flaxability and wait for the good stuff.
 
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Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

Since we now have Speights for the rest of the season, I would like to see him moved into the starting rotation. Tyler Zeller needs to come off the bench because he is an abortion on the offensive and defensive end playing as a starter. Speights isn't the best player in the world but he is definitely an upgrade over Zeller. The guy has confidence and can actually be productive offensively a majority of the time. Even if he leaves after the season it will give Tyler time to recover from whatever wall he hit.
 
Re: Welcome Marreese Speights

I cant blame him, I used to do that all the time whrn playing basketball and soccer. Its the compression shorts. Apparently it was bad enough that my mother felt the need to bring it up. "Stop messing with yourself!" It was a completely subconscious behavior.

Sometimes ya just need to move things around, let some air in....:chuckles:
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

Zeller should still start because we don't want speights getting momentum and playing his way to a bigger contract than need be. Zeller is our piece of the future we are contractually committed to. He needs developement time. We can afford to take some lumps from him this year. Speights can say 'screw you cavs' and go elsewhere at the drop of a hat this off season. no reason to help him out more than we have.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

Zeller should still start because we don't want speights getting momentum and playing his way to a bigger contract than need be. Zeller is our piece of the future we are contractually committed to. He needs developement time. We can afford to take some lumps from him this year. Speights can say 'screw you cavs' and go elsewhere at the drop of a hat this off season. no reason to help him out more than we have.

Agree 100% Wins that are won by Speights really have no value to us. If he wins games, he will command more money, Zeller and/or Thompson won't get the development they need, and we will lose draft position
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

I thought it would be easier to flip Speights than I guess it was. I can see the logic in not trading Speights for a bad contract and only getting a late 2013 first round draft pick. I figured some team like Boston would take the plunge and pony up a 2014 pick with limitted protection. I guess that just wasn't out there.

I think we all agree that it's better when the contracts that the Cavs take back can play (Speights, Ellington) or be good mentors (Walton). Unfortunately it looks like the Cavs would have had to take on too much bad salary to move Speights for a weak first round pick. Always makes sense to get paid to take players that are better than what you give away if you can do that. Or at least get guys back that fit with the team's plans. You don't want to lose flexability to take on crap and only get a luke warm asset in return.

While I thought it made total sense to trade Speights, what we saw probably makes more sense if you just take Speights out of the equation. If Grant thought the first round pick that the Cavs would get wasn't worth what the Cavs would have to take back to get it, then it makes sense not to do the deal, regardless of the Speights situation. There will be a bunch more 2014 & 2015 first round draft picks available for trades after June 27th. Keep flaxability and wait for the good stuff.

i agree and if you look at the other trades that were made i think it's highly unlikely that the Cavs were offered a 1st round pick...with the new CBA in place picks seem to have more value than ever

this is an interesting quote from Zach Lowe on the Redick trade:
As for Orlando: It seems they couldn't get a first-round pick, so this return is fine. That's the story of the trade deadline: Only one first-round pick changed hands after January 1 — the pick Memphis sent to Cleveland in their pre-Rudy trade. About four or five future first-rounders changed hands on average in the last few trade deadlines.


the fact that nobody was willing to offer a 1st for JJ Hickson (Chris Broussard and Ken Berger both mentioned that on twitter) is another indicator . he's basically in the same situation as Speights (his contract expires after the season) and should have even more value around the league imo
 
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Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

33 points combine tonight from Speights and Ellington.

They have totally transformed the bench.

Remember how maddening it was earlier this year the second the starters would leave the game and the bench would come in and look like a CYO squad?

I don't miss that.

Speights is only 2.5 years older than Zeller, so he is hardly a dinosaur. There is no reason he can't be kept around as part the core group as a highly competent big off the bench.

Contending teams all have one like him, so why would we make no effort to keep him when we will have to find someone like him any way when we start contending.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

Speights made some total bonehead plays tonight. Acted like a poor man's DeMarcus Cousins. :chuckles:

But then he got his act together like the rest of the team.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

Speights got to the line 12 times. If the guy could defend a box he'd get the max.
 
Re: Marreese Speights for the Rest of the Season

He was a complete fool in the first half, that 3 point attempt was beyond stupid. If he plays like that half the rest of the season we might have a new tank driver
 

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