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Net Neutrality

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Additional Economic growth being the primary benefit.

How? Like, in real specific terms how does this grow the economy? If anything, it would seem to benefit the consolidation of wealth in the industry rather than the creation of new wealth in new companies.
 
If your product is good, it's good. It's as simple as that. It will still work, but you won't be able to produce it at the top tier speeds? Who gives a fuck. I'll still use a good product.


On the flip side, I guess we're just going to ignore the benefit of stimulating more economic growth? More money circulation, upping competition between these larger corporations. More jobs. Pushing these corporations stock prices to ultimately new highs and bigger gains. Definitely leading to much stronger UNITED STATES financial assets, which leads to more foreign investors, etc.

Please. If you're just going to ignore the benefits don't even comment on the repeal because it's an awful look. There are benefits.
There are definitely pros and cons, and I agree definitely in the short term. Long term I think we are much better off with deregulation. Time will tell.
 
If your product is good, it's good. It's as simple as that. It will still work, but you won't be able to produce it at the top tier speeds? Who gives a fuck. I'll still use a good product.


On the flip side, I guess we're just going to ignore the benefit of stimulating more economic growth? More money circulation, upping competition between these larger corporations. More jobs. Pushing these corporations stock prices to ultimately new highs and bigger gains. Definitely leading to much stronger UNITED STATES financial assets, which leads to more foreign investors, etc.

Please. If you're just going to ignore the benefits don't even comment on the repeal because it's an awful look. There are benefits.

I'm not sure I understand the benefits as you describe them. I'm not even sure how you're getting to the conclusion that ending net neutrality "ups competition?" Yes, it will up some of these companies stock prices, but there are winners and losers here...
 
The headlines regarding the Federal Communications Commission’s upcoming vote on “net neutrality” regulations suggest impending doom. “FCC Is Revving Up to Destroy the Internet as We Know It,” blares a Popular Mechanics headline. “The Free and Open Internet Is About to Become Less Free, Less Open,” declares a St. Louis Post-Dispatch editorial. Yet, despite the considerable media coverage of net neutrality, the issue remains obscure for many consumers. And unfortunately, much of the coverage has shed more heat than light.

So what does net neutrality actually do? To answer that question, we need to consider how the three principal elements of net neutrality regulations — bans on blocking, throttling and paid prioritization — would be applied to some older “offline” industries.


First, net neutrality would ban Internet providers from blocking any legal content. The reasoning for such a ban is dubious. After all, broadband companies own their private lines and should be able to choose what goes over them. Which raises the question: Do consumers really need the government dictating a no-blocking policy that so tramples on Internet service providers property rights?

Consider one familiar, long-established industry. What if the federal government forced grocery stores to carry every conceivable food item?
Grocery stores have strong incentive to give their shoppers as many choices as possible. If a store chooses not to sell a product, it risks losing customers to competitors that carry that product. Broadband providers operate under the same restraint. They have every incentive to offer their customers maximum access to the Internet’s sites and services.

Some net neutrality proponents oppose allowing broadband companies to develop and then favor their own content, even though this is akin to supermarkets giving their own store-brand products valuable shelf space alongside recognized national brands.

American consumers experience vast and expanding choice at their grocery stores without federal mandates. There’s no reason to believe market forces wouldn’t deliver the same results online.

Second, there’s throttling, the intentional limiting of available bandwidth. It slows Internet connections to help decrease congestion due to high-use times or sites or services that use large amounts of data, such as streaming services. Throttling can happen at various points of connection. Both content providers and broadband providers are capable of throttling, but current net neutrality regulations only outlaw broadband providers from engaging in the practice.

Bandwidth is a finite resource and its owners need ways to control its use and manage congestion. Offering consumers different price points that include some throttling in exchange for lower fees and others that avoid any throttling in exchange for pricier data plans is similar to hotels charging more for rooms during busy travel seasons.
Dynamic pricing offers consumers more choices. The rules of supply and demand still hold in the world of telecommunications.

Yet, it’s the federal government that seems most inclined to block or filter content, through such misguided measures as the Communications Decency Act (and related lawsuits against broadcasters), library filtering, social networking regulation, and privacy regulations. Given that, is there any reason not to expect the FCC to apply its restriction on business practices it doesn’t like to content and apps next?

Finally, net neutrality would prevent broadband companies from accepting payment from content providers in exchange for moving their data across the network more quickly. But shouldn’t paying more get you more?

Think of Netflix content as a passenger on Broadband Airlines. Without the net neutrality ban, Netflix could pay more for a “direct flight,” getting the content passenger to its destination faster. That benefits the loved one waiting in the destination city — or, in our case, a home subscriber binge watching The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.
Federal entities routinely use paid prioritization to better deliver services — including overnight and priority mail, expedited passport renewal, and airline security pre-check.
Consumers benefit from more options at different price points. Broadband service is no exception.

Regulations that are unnecessary, deter investment, and limit innovation are especially harmful in industries as fast-moving as telecommunications. As the above examples show, net neutrality regulations would do little to help broadband consumers.
 
Again, I would love to hear a legitimate, reasoned, and specific argument in favor of repeal?
 
I'm not sure I understand the benefits as you describe them. I'm not even sure how you're getting to the conclusion that ending net neutrality "ups competition?" Yes, it will up some of these companies stock prices, but there are winners and losers here...

You're telling me moving more towards free market economics is a bad thing for our economy?
 
<Message withheld by the FCC. Please upgrade your service to access this content or watch a short four minute clip from one of our sponsors.>
 
<Message withheld by the FCC. Please upgrade your service to access this content or watch a short four minute clip from one of our sponsors.>
Remember when we had these issues three years ago?
 
You're telling me moving more towards free market economics is a bad thing for our economy?
All of our greatest innovations have come from a free market.
 
You're telling me moving more towards free market economics is a bad thing for our economy?

While technically, repealing Net Neutrality does remove one more obstacle from a free market in the field, it doesn't accomplish a free market or even really make a move towards it.

I support repealing it because it's none of the federal government's business what these companies do, and they have no legitimate authority to tell them how to offer their products or services. But you still have various other regulations that prevent competition, so what people are fearing will happen could become reality.

Until these providers have to face a competitive market, what the consumer wants isn't high up on their list of priorities.
 
at least atts own streaming services will not count towards data caps.
 
If your product is good, it's good. It's as simple as that. It will still work, but you won't be able to produce it at the top tier speeds? Who gives a fuck. I'll still use a good product.


On the flip side, I guess we're just going to ignore the benefit of stimulating more economic growth? More money circulation, upping competition between these larger corporations. More jobs. Pushing these corporations stock prices to ultimately new highs and bigger gains. Definitely leading to much stronger UNITED STATES financial assets, which leads to more foreign investors, etc.
.
I am completely ignorant in this matter and this may come off as rude, but I am genuinely asking these questions for the purposes of better understanding this discussion.

Where is more money coming from? What is going to stimulate this competition? I feel like when we had limited options, they were all expensive & they all sucked.
 
The headlines regarding the Federal Communications Commission’s upcoming vote on “net neutrality” regulations suggest impending doom. “FCC Is Revving Up to Destroy the Internet as We Know It,” blares a Popular Mechanics headline. “The Free and Open Internet Is About to Become Less Free, Less Open,” declares a St. Louis Post-Dispatch editorial. Yet, despite the considerable media coverage of net neutrality, the issue remains obscure for many consumers. And unfortunately, much of the coverage has shed more heat than light.

So what does net neutrality actually do? To answer that question, we need to consider how the three principal elements of net neutrality regulations — bans on blocking, throttling and paid prioritization — would be applied to some older “offline” industries.


First, net neutrality would ban Internet providers from blocking any legal content. The reasoning for such a ban is dubious. After all, broadband companies own their private lines and should be able to choose what goes over them. Which raises the question: Do consumers really need the government dictating a no-blocking policy that so tramples on Internet service providers property rights?

Consider one familiar, long-established industry. What if the federal government forced grocery stores to carry every conceivable food item?
Grocery stores have strong incentive to give their shoppers as many choices as possible. If a store chooses not to sell a product, it risks losing customers to competitors that carry that product. Broadband providers operate under the same restraint. They have every incentive to offer their customers maximum access to the Internet’s sites and services.

Some net neutrality proponents oppose allowing broadband companies to develop and then favor their own content, even though this is akin to supermarkets giving their own store-brand products valuable shelf space alongside recognized national brands.

American consumers experience vast and expanding choice at their grocery stores without federal mandates. There’s no reason to believe market forces wouldn’t deliver the same results online.

Second, there’s throttling, the intentional limiting of available bandwidth. It slows Internet connections to help decrease congestion due to high-use times or sites or services that use large amounts of data, such as streaming services. Throttling can happen at various points of connection. Both content providers and broadband providers are capable of throttling, but current net neutrality regulations only outlaw broadband providers from engaging in the practice.

Bandwidth is a finite resource and its owners need ways to control its use and manage congestion. Offering consumers different price points that include some throttling in exchange for lower fees and others that avoid any throttling in exchange for pricier data plans is similar to hotels charging more for rooms during busy travel seasons.
Dynamic pricing offers consumers more choices. The rules of supply and demand still hold in the world of telecommunications.

Yet, it’s the federal government that seems most inclined to block or filter content, through such misguided measures as the Communications Decency Act (and related lawsuits against broadcasters), library filtering, social networking regulation, and privacy regulations. Given that, is there any reason not to expect the FCC to apply its restriction on business practices it doesn’t like to content and apps next?

Finally, net neutrality would prevent broadband companies from accepting payment from content providers in exchange for moving their data across the network more quickly. But shouldn’t paying more get you more?

Think of Netflix content as a passenger on Broadband Airlines. Without the net neutrality ban, Netflix could pay more for a “direct flight,” getting the content passenger to its destination faster. That benefits the loved one waiting in the destination city — or, in our case, a home subscriber binge watching The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt.
Federal entities routinely use paid prioritization to better deliver services — including overnight and priority mail, expedited passport renewal, and airline security pre-check.
Consumers benefit from more options at different price points. Broadband service is no exception.

Regulations that are unnecessary, deter investment, and limit innovation are especially harmful in industries as fast-moving as telecommunications. As the above examples show, net neutrality regulations would do little to help broadband consumers.

This article is a great example of what I mean by slogans and platitudes... This isn't technical or specific in the slightest, and much of it is wrong both historically and technologically.

1) Broadband companies do not necessarily own their lines. I've given numerous examples of this before, but, the wire the packets transmit over might be owned by the municipality, or leased, or jointly owned over a multiple decades long agreement. I mentioned Hawaii Telecom and Time Warner/Oceanic. Those "lines" are municipal, in a joint agreement between Oceanic and Honolulu County. Oceanic got bought out by Time Warner, however, Hawaii Telecom had a previous lease agreement for those lines. Keep this in mind.. Ownership is RARELY straight-forward here.

2) Even at the ISP level, net neutrality helps consumers by preventing Time Warner from packet sniffing Hawaii Telecom's traffic and shaping it based on their own corporate agreements. This kind of relationship, exists around the country.. I'm simply using TWC/Oceanic because I know their network (and TWC's network in general) better than most people.

3) Arguing that bandwidth is a finite resource is fine; the issue comes with how the ISP determines which content is which... It's not actually a question of bandwidth per se, but content preference through privacy invasion. In effect, for this QoS technology to work (traffic shaping based on content), the ISP needs to analyze what you're doing on every round trip. Every packet needs to be visible in plain text to the ISP, OR, you need to use their DNS servers, or you get flagged for throttling if you don't go directly to their DNS' servers known addresses for bing.com and netflix.com. And if you decide to use TLS encryption or a VPN, well, welcome to throttling -- because again -- the only way for this technology to work, is to analyze the traffic.

4) Talking about grocery chains is cute, but is indicative of the problem .. the author really doesn't understand how the internet actually works; and neither do a lot of people. So they have to think in terms of "supply and demand" within the confines of a grocery store when, the issue is quite a bit more complex than that.

5) Being offered a plethora of packages, and having more choice, is not an inherently good thing. This is demonstrable if you simply compare the internet from 1996 to the internet of 2016. In 1996, you had options... Do I wanna pay for this, for that.. etc.. You get to pick how, when, and where you leave your walled garden, and at what price. The market, at that time, was based around the notion that portions of the internet could be sold at different rates based on function. Unlimited ISPs started popping up, offering a single product, unmetered 56.6k access to the internet. Dial-up ISPs still charged for email and usenet, but, you would get a SLIP/PPP connection and off you go (for the most part). ISPs today, rather than upgrading their networks, are trying to move us back 20 years. And the urgency to do this likely stems from the large size of 4k content (tens of gigabytes per user per viewing).

6) Axioms about the Federal Government really don't do anything for me... why they're even in this article I have no idea... The government isn't in a position to control or throttle networks, but private corporations are. This private vs public argument, or really private > public argument is a bit strange, and seems disingenuous on the part of the author.

I could go on and on but.. you get the idea.. the article isn't informative, it's frankly deliberately misleading.
 

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