Rate the last movie you saw

[gourimoko]

edit - Also, if movies not being possible in the real world is the threshold, about 98% of Sci-Fi is unwatchable as well.

No, that's not what I mean....

What I'm saying is that the premise of the first Star Trek reboot isn't something fantastical; that would have been fine. Instead, it's something that is outright impossible, a well understood thing, that is simply being misunderstood by the writers and directors.

You can tell there was no scientific consultant working with Abrams during the film, and if there was, he had no input.

 

[col63onel]

I gotta disagree man; I think this is a common misconception.

The first Star Trek movie was a financial success, but Paramount didn't meet their expected margins. TWOK was a better film, done on better margins, with tighter studio controls and by a more seasoned team. But both movies were successful, and obviously TWOK was the better film overall in almost all respects.

ST3 was also a commercial success, again done on a smaller budget. The studio just fucked up hiring Nimoy to direct, and Roddenberry knew this. But again, these movies weren't killing the franchise, they were all financial successes done on relatively low budgets compared to the original.

Star Trek: A Voyage Home was one of the most successful movies to date to come out of Paramount when it was released. People loved and still love that movie; even though I personally fucking hate it (it's my least favorite of them all, outside of the reboots).

So I can't say that these movies were killing the franchise. Star Trek was a Paramount cash cow, and people loved ST4. Final Frontier was ass, but Undiscovered Country was actually a pretty damn good ST movie; it's definitely better than the reboot films.

I'm not sure how? I mean, are you a Star Trek fan, or..?

More talking about TNG movies. The original cast movies were mostly fine. I tried watching TOS, but just too dated. I am sure it was great for it's time. I have seen all of the movies (well couldn't get through the last 2).

WoK, Reboot, Undiscovered Country are my favorites. Would watch them at any point. ("You haven't experienced Shakespeare unless you have read the original Klingon")

ST:ID, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, First Contact are all watchable, but I love none of them. I liked ST:ID on the big screen, but it's rewatch value is nil.

The rest are just crap, which includes 3 of the last 4 made, which are the 4 TNG movies. Even if you hate the reboots, they are definitely better than Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. Nemesis barely made back it's budget. The movie franchise was dying.

JJ isn't saving anything. We haven't even seen the fucking movie yet man, c'mon..

IMO, Just about any director could make a competent Star Wars film. Just not George Lucas, because he's not a very good director.

I know. Just really excited for it to come out. I told myself I wasn't going to get my expectations too high. Unfortunately, I couldn't keep it up.

 

[Sebastian]

More talking about TNG movies. The original cast movies were mostly fine. I tried watching TOS, but just too dated. I am sure it was great for it's time. I have seen all of the movies (well couldn't get through the last 2).

WoK, Reboot, Undiscovered Country are my favorites. Would watch them at any point. ("You haven't experienced Shakespeare unless you have read the original Klingon")

ST:ID, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, First Contact are all watchable, but I love none of them. I liked ST:ID on the big screen, but it's rewatch value is nil.

The rest are just crap, which includes 3 of the last 4 made, which are the 4 TNG movies. Even if you hate the reboots, they are definitely better than Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. Nemesis barely made back it's budget. The movie franchise was dying.



I know. Just really excited for it to come out. I told myself I wasn't going to get my expectations too high. Unfortunately, I couldn't keep it up.

Yeah, First Contact aside, the TNG movies were shitty. Which is a shame wasting Patrick Stewart as they did.

I blame Rick Berman, a man with no vision, who was too hands on with those films. Rather than use the films to greatly expand the Trek universe or tackle big concepts, he went for the milquetoast episodic formula which he so handedly shoved down everyone's throat with Voyager. Berman killed the films, and nearly the franchise with his mediocrity (see Insurrection, Generations, Nemesis, ST: Voyager and Enterprise). The reason DS9 was so great is because he wasn't really involved with it.

The TNG films take place during the most epic period in Star Trek history, the Dominion War, and it only garners one mention? Those TNG films try to manufacture uninteresting marginal conflicts (Oh noes! The Sona facelift people to death!) to frame their low-stakes plots and yet they ignore the giant interstellar war engulfing two quadrants. The premise that the Federation's most powerful starship isn't involved in the fighting is beyond ludicrous. What an idiot.

 

[gourimoko]

More talking about TNG movies. The original cast movies were mostly fine.

I see..

People do tend to dislike Generations, I personally dig the movie, but I can see why people didn't care for it. I loved First Contact, but it suffered from some of the same problems as Generations.

Insurrection was actually liked by a lot of folks, rewatching it, it's alright..

Nemesis was a total abortion.. For the love of all that is holy...

I tried watching TOS, but just too dated. I am sure it was great for it's time.

How old are u man? I grew up watching TOS, and I'm only 32. I loved TOS, and it's still my favorite of all the Star Trek shows (seasons 1&2 at least).

I have seen all of the movies (well couldn't get through the last 2).

WoK, Reboot, Undiscovered Country are my favorites. Would watch them at any point. ("You haven't experienced Shakespeare unless you have read the original Klingon")

Yeah, WoK and UC are definitely the best two of the original cast. I'd put First Contact up there with them though, I'd say it's as good as UC if not better.

I can't see the appeal of the reboots though.. I just, can't understand it.

ST:ID, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, First Contact are all watchable, but I love none of them. I liked ST:ID on the big screen, but it's rewatch value is nil.

Into Darkness is, well, ... I'd rather watch anything but that shit.

I hate Voyage Home, don't understand why it's so loved. I'm with you on Search for Spock. And really liked First Contact.

The rest are just crap, which includes 3 of the last 4 made, which are the 4 TNG movies. Even if you hate the reboots, they are definitely better than Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. Nemesis barely made back it's budget. The movie franchise was dying.

Well, Generations, and First Contact were successful movies as was Insurrection. Those movies all grossed at least 2:1 on their rather low budgets.

The problem with the entire franchise was Rick Berman; and this isn't just the films, the whole fucking franchise at Paramount was fucked because of his mismanagement, micromanagement, lack of vision, and horrible tasteless opinions.

To that end, they really needed to take a more traditional route to hiring directors and managing the cast instead of simply relying on Frakes. It was a mistake largely because the studio wanted to maintain a certain level of control just as they had with Nimoy.

Nemesis was just awful.

1) The decision to hire Stuart Baird made absolutely no sense; whatsoever. This decision ended the Star Trek TNG franchise then and there on the spot.

2) Spiner wanting to end his role as Data was a big blow to any hopes of revamping the film. He also should not have been put in a creative position. Again, Paramount trying to save money by re-purposing actors as writers and directors.

3) While Insurrection was a financial success, Nemesis was so bad that Paramount felt it would be better to just reboot the franchise altogether. This largely falls on Berman, because the pool for talent and content was from the small screen and with DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise not really being suitable for the big screen, you had very little to pull from.

I know. Just really excited for it to come out. I told myself I wasn't going to get my expectations too high. Unfortunately, I couldn't keep it up.

Dude, I'm with you.. I'm hyper excited too..

I hope this will be a good movie, like I really do.. I think since it's Star Wars, how bad could it be? Then I think of the prequels...

 

[gourimoko]

Yeah, First Contact aside, the TNG movies were shitty. Which is a shame wasting Patrick Stewart as they did.

I blame Rick Berman, a man with no vision, who was too hands on with those films. Rather than use the films to greatly expand the Trek universe or tackle big concepts, he went for the milquetoast episodic formula which he so handedly shoved down everyone's throat with Voyager. Berman killed the films, and nearly the franchise with his mediocrity (see Insurrection, Generations, Nemesis, ST: Voyager and Enterprise). The reason DS9 was so great is because he wasn't really involved with it.

The TNG films take place during the most epic period in Star Trek history, the Dominion War, and it only garners one mention? Those TNG films try to manufacture uninteresting marginal conflicts (Oh noes! The Sona facelift people to death!) to frame their low-stakes plots and yet they ignore the giant interstellar war engulfing two quadrants. The premise that the Federation's most powerful starship isn't involved in the fighting is beyond ludicrous. What an idiot.

It's funny you make the same point I did about Berman, literally 4 minutes before I posted.. lol.

 

[col63onel]

How old are u man? I grew up watching TOS, and I'm only 32. I loved TOS, and it's still my favorite of all the Star Trek shows (seasons 1&2 at least).

I really didn't get into SciFi stuff as a kid. Only in the last 5 or so years have I really become more of a fan. I tried watching TOS about 2-3 years ago, and it just looks to dated. If I had tried watching it in the 90s or something, probably would've been different.

I did the same with with James Bond. Last year, I said I would watch all of them in order. I struggled through Dr. No, got 20 minutes into From Russia With Love and had to quit. Just have trouble watching old special effects.

 

[gourimoko]

I really didn't get into SciFi stuff as a kid. Only in the last 5 or so years have I really become more of a fan. I tried watching TOS about 2-3 years ago, and it just looks to dated. If I had tried watching it in the 90s or something, probably would've been different.

I did the same with with James Bond. Last year, I said I would watch all of them in order. I struggled through Dr. No, got 20 minutes into From Russia With Love and had to quit. Just have trouble watching old special effects.

Yeah, I get it.. That makes sense why you'd prefer the reboots then, I think a lot of people (maybe most) probably feel the same way you do.

I grew up with TOS, Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, The Outer Limits, the original Perry Mason, and Doctor Who. Watched a ton of westerns as a kid, and preferred older movies and shows to newer ones.

TOS feels like a western in space; and that's why I loved it and still do.

Kirk is such a fucking bad ass.

 

[col63onel]

Yeah, I get it.. That makes sense why you'd prefer the reboots then, I think a lot of people (maybe most) probably feel the same way you do.

I grew up with TOS, Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, The Outer Limits, the original Perry Mason, and Doctor Who. Watched a ton of westerns as a kid, and preferred older movies and shows to newer ones.

TOS feels like a western in space; and that's why I loved it and still do.

Kirk is such a fucking bad ass.

Guessing you liked Firefly, then?

 

[gourimoko]

Guessing you liked Firefly, then?

@Jack Brickman would kill me, but, I'm not the biggest fan.. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike it, I just never really gave it a chance. I hear it's fantastic though if you really sit down and watch it, and I see how Serenity is so well liked.

 

[SalvadoranCavsfan]

@gourimoko Why do you like TOS over TNG? I guess since I watched TNG first I might have been tainted by better graphics, but I just love Patrick Stewart.

 

[gourimoko]

@gourimoko Why do you like TOS over TNG? I guess since I watched TNG first I might have been tainted by better graphics, but I just love Patrick Stewart.

I love TNG, don't get me wrong.. I think it's fantastic.

But, I prefer TOS for a couple of reasons.

1) I prefer the TOS crew. I prefer Kirk because I can relate to him. That doesn't mean Picard is not a badass in his own right, but Kirk is more like me as a person.

2) Spock is a fantastic character as is Data, but nothing beats the Kirk/Spock dynamic duo.

3) TNG tried to replicate McCoy with Dr. Pulaski but that didn't really work very well. She was a good character, and offered a counter for Picard, but, not a good companion. They wanted to so desperately avoid a romantic relationship with Crusher and Picard that the constant tension between them seemed odd. By contrast, McCoy, when added to Kirk and Spock is the perfect group of 3 guys all very different all with their own dimension to add to the group.

4) TOS is so fucking Cold War old-school it's ridiculous.. There's an episode about two planets waging endless virtual computerized war, where they simulate detonating thermonuclear bombs over their cities and based on the simulated results, they kill people who were killed by some probabilistic function. It's insane.

Long story short, Enterprise shows up with some loud mouth diplomat who shirks Kirk's authority and forces them to enter this warzone. Upon beaming down and being politely greeted, they're immediately taken into custody.. The guy asks him straight up: "You mean.. we are to be killed?" The cold-hearted response in the affirmative is just as great.

Now, TNG had some great characters that TOS didn't have any semblance of like Riker, Troi, and Warf. Those characters' best episodes are typically among the best of the series.

Beyond the main cast, I thought the stories in TOS were very well done, often more so than TNG. TOS Seasons 1&2 are fantastic and the quality of writing is often superior to what you would find in TNG over the same run of episodes.

Now, TNG has the absolute best Star Trek episodes to date, including Best of Both Worlds, etc, but, I don't think that really speaks to the average episode and if we remove TOS Season 3, then I think the Original Series is marginally better and more enjoyable.

 

[Pioneer10]

Let's face it there is likely only so many plot lines one can fill and on re-watch TOS really hits on some great storylines that are just so great that it's hard to replicate. Gour brought up the cold war nuke simulator, but you have the racial angle from the Uhara kiss to the planet where the one group with white-black faces hate the group with black - white faces.

Now TNG started catching up in the end, the Picard torture scene is among the best any television show has to offer for example but the first year with Will Crusher is so irksome that I think TOS is better. It's a close call though and I could be talked one way or the other. Still can't believe that some believe DS9 is the best. I get it politically it's the most gritty/realistic? but other then that uggh.

 

[David.]

...can we go back to superhero movies

 

[Biw]

As a 25 year old black male I've never watched the cult hit that is Back to the Future, until today that is. With all the buzz about the date from Part II coming up, I felt compelled to finally sit down and watch it.

I have to say, it's a pretty damn good movie. I'm not breaking any ground here but I was genuinely surprised at how much I liked it.

8.5/10

 

[KI4MVP]

I'm old enough that I watched TOS in the 60s (reruns) and watched TNG each week as it aired. I think TNG had the better villains and the best episodes (the Borg for both), but it was on so long it also probably had more episodes that didn't work. Even being a huge star trek fan, I never really watched all of the other series that followed TNG.

I personally like that the reboot goes back the TOS characters. I don't get too caught up in Gour's issue that the story line is impossible. We're talking about a show with warp drives and transporters, which are also both impossible.