So long, David Griffin

[col63onel]

Not to nitpick but the Mozgov trade had a Grizzlies pick I'm 99% certain we would have never seen along with a Thunder pick we just acquired days before. So we didn't really have it for more than a few days. Plus who really cares about seconds? Usually you get 2-3 solid players per draft.

Grizzlies pick is going to convey this year. It potentially could only be about 5-10 spots worse than the pick Sacto got for Boogie. Like, if we still had the pick, we legit could've bid on Boogie.

Not that you expect Griff to know than 3 years ago, but that's why you don't throw away assets.

The Thunder pick we did just acquire days before.....and I wish we could've done something with it.

The Andy trade was worth the 1st IMO. It's not completely unloading if you're getting the better player. Especially that much of a difference maker.

It wasn't Andy plus a 1st for Frye. It was Frye for nothing, but a 1st to get out of Andy's deal, which Griff signed.

Lastly, JR was not signing in 2015. The cap spike was too much in their favor.

Do we know what he was willing to sign for long term? As I've been told, unless you have inside info, that's just playing "arm-chair GM bullshit that has zero basis in factual information."

 

[TitleTown]

Do we know what he was willing to sign for long term? As I've been told, unless you have inside info, that's just playing "arm-chair GM bullshit that has zero basis in factual information."

Exactly right. Too many people making claims without information of what better or worse options were available.

 

[col63onel]

No, this is not the same thing.

IF you are going to say "he could have gotten a better deal," then the burden of proof is on you to prove that is true.

I am NOT saying he got the best deal. I am ONLY saying that based on what we do know, he has done a fantastic job.

Because it's not like we don't have an idea of the value of a draft pick. If you trade a 1st round pick, you should expect a certain amount of value in return.

I don't know what other options Paxson had in 2004. I do know that in no universe is half a season of Jiri Wlesch enough value for a 1st round pick.

 

[col63onel]

Exactly right. Too many people making claims without information of what better or worse options were available.

So you'd agree for all we know, Griffin has turned down some great deals. So there really isn't enough information to say he's done a "fantastic job".

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Griff is def. not perfect, nobody is. I'm gonna give my take on all these moves tho.

He spent 2 1st round picks on Timofey Mozgov. A 28 year old center who had been a fringe rotation player. Mozgov had 1/2 a productive season for the Cavs, then left in FA.

I will forever defend this move. This trade along with Shump and JR energized a 19-20 Cavs team that looked flat out disastrous. Mozgov energized LeBron so much, it was worth it. Windy at the time wouldn't shut up about how much Bron liked playing with Mozgov due to his size and abilities. Said when Bron first saw Moz walk in ,his reaction was "holy shit, he's big as fuck!!!". Just for that reason, that trade was worth it.

He signed Varejao to an awful extension (I believe you called it an "abortion"), that required a 1st to unload. That's 3 first rounders on 2 centers who did zilch to help us win the title.

Varejao was a terrible contract , I agree. He fell off a cliff physically.

Griff turned shit into gold again though...While trading AV cost a first, it also created a TPE big enough to get Frye for free. Without that , we may never have gotten Frye because of our cap situation. We used bird rights to sign Andy. Ultimately, it ended up being a first for Frye, which I'd call an overall success. Griff did a great job fixing the AV mess.

He spent 2 2nd rounders on half a season of Spencer Hawes.

That was bad. Agree with you here.

The Cavs biggest avenue for signing FA since he took over is the MLE. In the first 2 years years, he signed Mike Miller and Mo Williams, who combined for about 1/2 a productive season between them. He used 2 2nds to get rid of Miller, although it was 2 separate deals with him and Haywood.

I don't think he had much of a choice with Miller. And I don't think Mo was a bad signing overall. He was just an asshole.

In summer of 15, he had opportunities to sign Delly and JR to long term deals. He didn't, and Delly walked for Dunleavy, and JR signed a much more expensive deal.

I think Griff played that like every other GM would have played it, I don't think his reasoning last year was flawed and at the time, he looked like a genius with the lux tax money he saved last year.

Overall, I do agree he's a good GM. I don't think pointing out his mistakes is nit picking. He's legit made some objectively bad moves.

Agreed.

 

[TitleTown]

So you'd agree for all we know, Griffin has turned down some great deals. So there really isn't enough information to say he's done a "fantastic job".

Actually, there IS enough information to say he's done a fantastic job. But, there is NOT enough information to say he's done a bad job.

Those are not the same things.

How do we know he's done a great job? By looking at the total number and value picks traded in comparison to the total amount of talent added.

He turned 3 shitty first round picks into: Mozgov, Shumpert, JR, Korver, and Frye. It also looks like we're adding Williams, Williams, and Bogut for nothing.

Tell me what you would have done better with those assets?

 

[col63onel]

I will forever defend this move. This trade along with Shump and JR energized a 19-20 Cavs team that looked flat out disastrous. Mozgov energized LeBron so much, it was worth it. Windy at the time wouldn't shut up about how much Bron liked playing with Mozgov due to his size and abilities. Said when Bron first saw Moz walk in ,his reaction was "holy shit, he's big as fuck!!!". Just for that reason, that trade was worth it.

The JR and Shump moves were great trades. Giving up 2 firsts for Moz was bad at the time. No way was Moz's value high there.

Like, if we only give up 1, or we still had some 2nds to trade and give up a 1st and a couple 2nds, then it's much more defensible.

Griff turned shit into gold again though...While trading AV cost a first, it also created a TPE big enough to get Frye for free. Without that , we may never have gotten Frye because of our cap situation. We used bird rights to sign Andy. Ultimately, it ended up being a first for Frye, which I'd call an overall success. Griff did a great job fixing the AV mess.

Again, we could've just done Frye into the TPE, but Gilbert demanded we shed some payroll in addition to adding Frye (Windy has talked about this a couple times). Trading Varejao's contract was not needed to get Frye.

I think Griff played that like every other GM would have played it

A lot of Griff's moves, good or bad, could also be described as this, which why I scratch my head when people say he's one of top couple GMs. Like, if we have the best player, the best GM and the owner willing to spend the most money, we should be "light years" ahead of the league.

 

[col63onel]

He turned 3 shitty first round picks into: Mozgov, Shumpert, JR, Korver, and Frye. It also looks like we're adding Williams, Williams, and Bogut for nothing.

First of all, why are we giving Griff credit for buyout vet mins? Is there any credible evidence those players coming to Cleveland has anything other to do with LeBron being here?

Just this year, Nerlens Noel, Demarcus Cousins, Serge Ibaka and Lou Williams have been traded for 3 1st rounders, 2 2nds, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross and Corey Brewer. 2 of the 1sts will be in the 20s and one will be late lottery. Those deals that were available and with a better management of assets, we could've done.

 

[Hydroponic3385]

Everyone STFU and enjoy the fact that we're defending champs, and that Deron Williams jersey number is the latest reminder that the Golden State Warriors blew a 3-1 lead.

 

[TitleTown]

First of all, why are we giving Griff credit for buyout vet mins? Is there any credible evidence those players coming to Cleveland has anything other to do with LeBron being here?

Just this year, Nerlens Noel, Demarcus Cousins, Serge Ibaka and Lou Williams have been traded for 3 1st rounders, 2 2nds, Buddy Hield, Terrance Ross and Corey Brewer. 2 of the 1sts will be in the 20s and one will be late lottery. Those deals that were available and with a better management of assets, we could've done.

Oh wow. What a great list of players

I would not want Cousins. The rest are no better than our vets, or development projects. No thanks.

 

[col63onel]

Oh wow. What a great list of players

I would not want Cousins. The rest are no better than our vets, or development projects. No thanks.

Serge Ibaka is not better than our developmental projects? WTF?

 

[TitleTown]

Serge Ibaka is not better than our developmental projects? WTF?

Once LBJ moves to PF in the playoffs, Ibaka would be worthless. Bogut/Korver provides us much more diversity.

Like I said, that was a shitty list of players outside of Cousins and what we already have. No thanks.

 

[col63onel]

Once LBJ moves to PF in the playoffs, Ibaka would be worthless. Bogut/Korver provides us much more diversity.

Like I said, that was a shitty list of players outside of Cousins and what we already have. No thanks.

So I am arguing with someone who thinks Serge Ibaka is a "shitty player".

Wish you woulda lead with this.

 

[TitleTown]

So I am arguing with someone who thinks Serge Ibaka is a "shitty player".

Wish you woulda lead with this.

Who would you replace in our 9 man playoff rotation with Ibaka?

LBJ, TT, or Love???

Yes, in the context of our playoffs rotation, he does NOT move the needle.

So, he's shitty.

 

[col63onel]

Who would you replace in our 9 man playoff rotation with Ibaka?

LBJ, TT, or Love???

Yes, in the context of our playoffs rotation, he does NOT move the needle.

So, he's shitty.

Frye and Mozgoz didn't move the needle and either. So by your logic, they were shitty players that we gave assets for, so those deals were bad, right?