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The Brian Hoyer thread...

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Yessir, no way the Browns can afford that 1 million of cap space that Hoyer's going to account for next season to see if he can recover over the course of a year.

This is a 27 year old QB who has up to this point been a career back up. No way that kind of player could deal with any type of uncertainty or adversity going forward.

May as well just cut him now, there are clearly going to better uses for that roster spot and cap space.

There is something else that is the case about being a career backup, he hasn't taken all the hits that a starter would have. If he recovers properly from this injury, there is no reason not to give him a chance at the job next season. I just don't get this obsession by Torn. I am no Weeden hater. But, the differences in release time are just ridiculous. Brandon needs to improve his ability to read a defense. He just can't keep holding it as long as he does. Yep, a sack is better then an interception. But, every time he holds it too long, he increases the number of hits he is taking. Even if he gets it away, he is still taking more hits then he needs to be.
 
Cafemerald brings up a very good point. I think Hoyer is superior to Weeden in getting the offense into the right offense given the pre-snap reads. It seems like Hoyer audibled more than Weeden does, maybe that's because Hoyer had more freedom to do so. However; I think the major difference is Hoyer trusted the WR to break open while Weeden waits for them to be open. I'm not sure if it's a trust thing with Weeden or he's just gun shy because he's constantly being told to not turn the ball over. Either way, he's clearly waiting too long to release the ball because he's not comfortable. It seems like that's a light that goes on one day. If it hasn't turned on by now I'd be surprised if it ever will.
 
Do you know why the play calling is different with Hoyer in there? Because he is a completely different quarterback my man. Hoyer allows the offense to do things they couldn't do with Weeden. The main reason is what occurs before and after the play.

Hoyer goes up to the line of scrimage, identifies the defense, and audibles when necessary. He puts himself in a situation where he can expect certain things to happen based on the routes his players are running and the coverage shown. This allows him to go through his progression in a much faster and much more efficient way. Does he have the long ball to burn you deep? No. but he doesn't need it. I will take hitting a wide open player in stride allowing him to get YAC all day over a few deep balls that are 50-50 at best.

Weeden doesn't have this knowledge. He chooses which reciever he wants to go to on a play for some arbitrary reason, stares him down, and then throws a laser bullet pass into whatever coverage there is. He lets the defense dictate the game, Hoyer lets the offense dictate the game.

Look at what Alex Smith is doing right now. Hoyer compares very well to Alex Smith in terms of their quarterback play. Weeden has no such similarities.

Now should we not give Weeden a chance? Of course we should. He is our best option. Hopefully he can put his geriatric ego to the side and give Hoyer a call and help him work on his presnap preparation. But seriously man... watch the fucking games. Hoyer is better in all phases of the game than Weeden.




EDIT: I am all for giving Hoyer another shot next season regardless of if we draft a QB or not. I think it would be beneficial for all parties involved. The main reason.... I want to see what Hoyer can do when Dion Lewis gets back. I mean seriously. Dion Lewis would compliment Hoyer's skill set so well. I cream my pants just thinking about it.

You might have apoint if the run game was more productive with hoyer in the backfield. They werent. You also might have a point if the Browns went back to their pass happy ways when Brandon came into the bills game. They didnt. In fact the Balance of run calls continued increasing with willie getting 26 carries. Brandon also seemsed to take it upon himself to audible out of pass plays and goto the run.

As far as the Ravens game. The Browns were down by one score. you dont abandon the run game down by a score. not that tyhey had many attempts to carry.

3 runs to 1 carry. ridiculous ratio.


rationalize all you want. Hoyer was no football Jesus bringing the word to Browns football.

The coaching staff failed to stay committed to mixing in runs in the play calling which is easy to do, instead gambling on the pass. They made adjustments and it coincided with Hoyers. but damn by your guys standards, Jason Garrett, Kevin Kolb should be the greatest quarterbacks ever. They all had much better performances as backups turned starters. Maybe the Browns should sign Rex Grossman. He went to a Super Bowl.

I dont get the hero worship of a guy who couldnt even complete 60% of his passes and his toughest win was courtesy of a Browns defense that only allowed 6 points. It is fine though if Brandon comes out and completes less than 60% off his passes next game ill never post about Browns football again.
 
While we are on the subject of idiots... Does anyone still want to argue Kaepernick, Wilson, or RG III being better than Luck? Is that argument over now?





Good.
 
I'm not trying to be a smart ass here, I'm really not, but do you realize that the amount a team runs is dependent on the score of the game?

As Phills has mentioned, the reason we went pass happy in the 1st 2 games is because the game dictated it

And let's not forget, Hoyer threw the ball 54 times vs Minnesota (more than Weeden's career high) and he managed to pull out a win, despite us only running the ball 14 times w/ our RB (Aubrey's carry was on a fake punt and Gordon & Hoyer each got a carry)
 
You might have apoint if the run game was more productive with hoyer in the backfield. They werent. You also might have a point if the Browns went back to their pass happy ways when Brandon came into the bills game. They didnt. In fact the Balance of run calls continued increasing with willie getting 26 carries. Brandon also seemsed to take it upon himself to audible out of pass plays and goto the run.

As far as the Ravens game. The Browns were down by one score. you dont abandon the run game down by a score. not that tyhey had many attempts to carry.

3 runs to 1 carry. ridiculous ratio.


rationalize all you want. Hoyer was no football Jesus bringing the word to Browns football.

The coaching staff failed to stay committed to mixing in runs in the play calling which is easy to do, instead gambling on the pass. They made adjustments and it coincided with Hoyers. but damn by your guys standards, Jason Garrett, Kevin Kolb should be the greatest quarterbacks ever. They all had much better performances as backups turned starters. Maybe the Browns should sign Rex Grossman. He went to a Super Bowl.

I dont get the hero worship of a guy who couldnt even complete 60% of his passes and his toughest win was courtesy of a Browns defense that only allowed 6 points. It is fine though if Brandon comes out and completes less than 60% off his passes next game ill never post about Browns football again.

Okay, first of all. Let's understand that Weeden got all the first team snaps throughout training camp, practices, etc. And has built a much better chemistry and relationship with his receivers compared to Hoyer. I'm not sure you understand how little, basically zero snaps the backup, much less the third string gets with the starters during practice. Maybe three at most.

When you take that into account, and just see how a GREAT QB in Tom Brady is BADLY struggling with his timing to the young receivers, and even Amendola (who is experienced but has been in out with injuries), you can only begin to understand how CRUCIAL timing routes are with the QB and receivers in this league. It's everything!

There are parts in the game where its obviously not been there for Hoyer and the receivers.

Take all that into account, he still won two games and Weeden lost two. So yeah, and stats, percentages, anything you want to throw out is sooooo irrelevant. When you just see the only stat that really matters, and that's winning.

I hope you're not one of these new age fantasy geeks Tornicade. Where everything gets magnified on QBR, passing yards, and percentages. Tony Romo had a fantasy owners wet dream yesterday, and he still did what he always does. Come up short, and cost his team the game when it matters most.

Tony Romo couldn't be a better example of how overrated stats can really be. Because that guy can throw for a thousand yards in a game, and he still loses games for his team. That's not a QB I want. I want a QB that wins.
 
While we are on the subject of idiots... Does anyone still want to argue Kaepernick, Wilson, or RG III being better than Luck? Is that argument over now?





Good.


Or anyone that wants to argue they shouldn't have drafted Luck, kept Peyton, and build a team around him. Even as crazy good he's been since. They couldn't have been more lucky. So rare to catch lightening in a bottle twice so soon. The guy's upside is ridiculous. Not dare saying he'll be Peyton Manning great, but maybe...

Luck is willing his teams to victories, better than any young QB I've ever seen. His team is not that good at all. Such a rare thing for a young QB to do already. He's going to be scary good.
 
Tony Romo couldn't be a better example of how overrated stats can really be. Because that guy can throw for a thousand yards in a game, and he still loses games for his team. That's not a QB I want. I want a QB that wins.

I'm pretty sure the Dallas defense lost the game for the team. If you give up 51 points you're probably the primary reason the team lost.
 
Hero worship. Saying someone is better than a lackluster quarterback in Weeden, and has a comparable skill set to the professional game manager in Alex Smith is hero worship.

Is the bar that low in Cleveland?
 
Look at what Alex Smith is doing right now. Hoyer compares very well to Alex Smith in terms of their quarterback play. Weeden has no such similarities.

The guy Hoyer reminds me of- albeit in a small sample- is Matt Hasselbeck. Not highly touted coming out of college, looked like a career backup his first couple of years in the league playing behind a future HOF quarterback, doesn't have ideal size and arm strength but smart, decisive, gets the ball to his playmakers and has a good enough arm to make the throws.

After the crap we've had at QB since 1999, well, I don't know about the rest of you but I'd take Matt Hasselbeck in a heartbeat.
 
I was pretty happy with Hoyer's play this year. But if I'm the Browns, I'm still drafting a QB in the first round (if there is a good one to be had, don't want them to force a pick). I'd love to see Hoyer get a chance next year also and let that first rounder sit, even if it is for a few weeks. It kinda sounds silly to me because it was only two games, but he deserves another chance as a starter on this team.
 
It kinda sounds silly to me because it was only two games, but he deserves another chance as a starter on this team.

Not at all. I think he will get an opportunity to start next year. IIRC Mike Lombardi pounded the table to bring him in here, and that was before he won two games (and not as a coattail-rider, either; he made big contributions to both wins.) I know I'd like to see him get that opportunity.
 
so now Hoyer is better than Tony Romo, RG III , Kapernick or wIlson.. please name me 20 starting quarterbacks that Hoyer is better than.

As far as running the ball . Chud and Turner came out and said they messed up and would start running the ball more and have. Against the Bengals they committed to the run . got away from it and then went back to it. Against buffalo despite being down at points they still continued to run the ball.

In both the first to games the Browns were already not running the ball with the lead and continued not to run it when down by less than 1 score with plenty of time on the clock.

Its seems that people are only allowed to be critical of brandon and everything else with this team is beyond criticism.

this thread is really defying logic and common sense.
 
When did anyone say Hoyer was better than those quarterbacks?! What are you talking about overall? It doesn't make much sense.
 
When did anyone say Hoyer was better than those quarterbacks?! What are you talking about overall? It doesn't make much sense.

Hoyer is a 6th year pro. Weeden has three games entering his 2nd year. The guy performs better with run support even if it is a paltry 3 yards a carry.

Weeden was audibling in run plays on key drives even if he only had a few running lays int he game at his disposal.

I really dont see much of a drop off with weeden at the helm. nor did I see much improvement with Hoyer at qb except that he was a bit more seasoned (even without the game experience) and with the addition of Gordon the recievers were less likely to get jammed on their timing patterns.

long pas plays take time to develop. a threat to run is the only thing that can keep a defense at home if the line isnt picking up blocks.

Keep Weeden in the 25-35 pass attempt range and the Browns will Score enough to win and stay off the field long enough to stay fresh.

Ultimately Hoyer would of struggled once teams keyed on jamming the receivers.

people are name dropping in the thread for matters completely unrelated so I took a little liberty to make a point. Hoyer ultimately is not a big loss for the Browns and you could do worse than lose a guy who lost his starting job due to an injury coming back and taking another shot.

yes it sucks to see a guy get a break and lose it to an injury but Hoyer isnt coming back next week. His contract isnt guaranteed so he might not ever come back.
 

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