The Brian Hoyer thread...

[AZ_]

If there is one thing we can all agree on it's that running 5-7 yard outs to the sideline while you're trying to eat clock is probably the WORST thing you can do in that situation.

 

[DJTJ]

It's really, really weird to me to see a 1-2 Browns team that has a plus/minus of negative three points. Three straight games ending on a last second field goal. We're right there. We're scoring points, but the issue is we can't run the ball in situations where the opposing defense knows we're going to run the ball. Grinding the clock is going to be a major issue for us all season, imo. Being able to move the chains late in the forth is the difference between 1-2 and 3-0. Three very winnable games. Three bad quarters.

 

[The Oi]

If there is one thing we can all agree on it's that running 5-7 yard outs to the sideline while you're trying to eat clock is probably the WORST thing you can do in that situation.

Doubt you'll get much, if any, agreement there. The worst thing you can do from inside your own 10 is turn the ball over and the second worst thing you can do is run into a wall and force yourself to have to throw on third after allowing the Ravens to prevent you from running any clock whatsoever.

Slants and curls would have been perfect though. Even play-action if you're ok with risking the sack (I wouldn't be.)

And frankly, they'd have been better off getting out of bounds with a first down if they needed to just to advance the ball up field and avoid punting from inside the end zone. If you couldn't get anybody open up the middle, just get the first down however you need to and let the Ravens burn the timeouts on the next play. Just live to see another down.

I'd have taken that over running the ball 10/10 times given the timeouts and the two minute warning. They played into the Ravens hand perfectly by not focusing on getting the first.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

He is still 3-2 with both losses coming on last second field goals. Pretty impressive considering what we have seen here the last 15 years.

I still think just counting wins and losses, especially over a short period of time, is the wrong metric.

Generally, Hoyer was a lot more accurate yesterday than he was in either of his first two starts. He kind of fell apart on the last few drives, but at least he showed the ability for most of the game to hit his receivers. I'd take his performance yesterday over that in either of the first two games.

 

[Binkster]

Unsung moments of the game:

1. Gabriel slowing himself down after misreading that long ball should have been caught in stride for a touchdown.
2. Benjamin allowing the ball to sail over his head on the final punt.
3. Gilbert's pass interference penalty (underthrown ball, just needed to turn his head).

If any one of those 3 things don't happen, we probably win.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Good game today in the first 3 quarters, but missed on the game clinching throw.

So basically the opposite of last week.

It was almost like we got BIzarro Hoyer. Very good accuracy for most of the game, but regressing late. And it looked to me like he repeated the exact same mistake on a handoff that he made last week, spinning right for a handoff when the play was supposed to be the left. Except this time, it was Crow instead of West.

One thing that's a bit interesting is that some of the folks who were defending Hoyer last week on the grounds that we got the win, and that he came through late, are now suggesting that us not getting the win and Hoyer not coming through late isn't any reflection on him as QB. If late-game heroics count, than so too should late game screw-ups.

Personally, I liked his performance better this week than I did last week.

 

[Binkster]

Personally, I liked his performance better this week than I did last week.

Go figure. You liked the 127.1 rating? *Shocked*

 

[Jack Brickman]

Aside from screwing up that last throw, Hoyer appears to be getting better from week to week. You can't pin that loss entirely on him, even if he did mess up by under-throwing that potentially game-clinching pass. He's played well enough to keep us in a position where we could be 3-0 right now with a couple of breaks the other way.

I think we just have to hope our defense starts to play like they're capable of playing in the coming weeks. Our offense has looked surprisingly good, especially given our lack of receiving weapons.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Go figure. You liked the 127.1 rating? *Shocked*

Well, is it the result that matters, or how well he throws the ball? To me, it's the latter when we're evaluating him as an individual, which is why I wasn't pleased with his performance in either of the first two weeks.

As I said, others who were touting the fact that we won and he led a late game drive, and dismissing his accuracy issues, seem to have flipped.

 

[Binkster]

Aside from screwing up that last throw, Hoyer appears to be getting better from week to week. You can't pin that loss entirely on him, even if he did mess up by under-throwing that potentially game-clinching pass. He's played well enough to keep us in a position where we could be 3-0 right now with a couple of breaks the other way.

I think we just have to hope our defense starts to play like they're capable of playing in the coming weeks. Our offense has looked surprisingly good, especially given our lack of receiving weapons.

While I agree with your overall analysis here, I think you miss on a few things. I wouldn't call it a lack of receiving weapons - I think we just didn't realize that we had receiving weapons. A guy like Hawkins is emerging as a bonafide threat. He is breaking ankles with precision route running - very talented.

Miles Austin has been solid. Appears to be bouncing back from a sub-par finish in Dallas.

You also say, you cant pin the loss entirely on Hoyer. I feel he deserves none of it. This offense should have produced a minimum of 27 points yesterday (more if Gabriel catches that ball in stride).

 

[GreasySpread36]

One thing that's a bit interesting is that some of the folks who were defending Hoyer last week on the grounds that we got the win, and that he came through late, are now suggesting that us not getting the win and Hoyer not coming through late isn't any reflection on him as QB. If late-game heroics count, than so too should late game screw-ups.

I'm a Hoyer fan but I agree with this take. Hoyer's performance yesterday was reminiscent of what Bill Walsh used to say about Steve DeBerg: "just good enough to get beat." Too many mistakes and bad throws in big situations.

 

[Jack Brickman]

You also say, you cant pin the loss entirely on Hoyer. I feel he deserves none of it. This offense should have produced a minimum of 27 points yesterday (more if Gabriel catches that ball in stride).

Well, I put some of the blame on Hoyer because he threw behind his receiver on that final drive. If his pass is on target, that might have been the game. It wasn't a terribly difficult throw. He just didn't hit the target. It happens, even to the best QBs. But he definitely deserves some of the blame for missing it.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You also say, you cant pin the loss entirely on Hoyer. I feel he deserves none of it. This offense should have produced a minimum of 27 points yesterday (more if Gabriel catches that ball in stride).

Part of the reason it didn't produce 27 points is Hoyer's play in the 4th Q wasn't very good. The defense actually stepped up a bit, gave him some good field position, and he didn't do anything with it. I'd agree that he played well enough overall that the team should have gotten a victory, but better play by him in the 4th might have gotten a win as well.

Did they ever clarify who screwed up on that running play? Looked to me like there was a decent hole left, and we instead lost 4 or so yards.

 

[Binkster]

Well, I put

some of the blame on Hoyer because he threw behind his receiver on that final drive. If his pass is on target, that might have been the game. It wasn't a terribly difficult throw. He just didn't hit the target. It happens, even to the best QBs. But he definitely deserves some of the blame for missing it.

I guess I just feel like the offense shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. The offense/Hoyer put us in a position to score 27+ points and the special teams/defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

Hoyer played well enough to win this game if one of the other units (D, ST) had cleaned it up.

 

[Jack Brickman]

I guess I just feel like the offense shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. The offense/Hoyer put us in a position to score 27+ points and the special teams/defense didn't hold up their end of the bargain.

Hoyer played well enough to win this game if one of the other units (D, ST) had cleaned it up.

You're not wrong. I think we mostly agree. I just think that you have to call out Hoyer for missing that throw, even if he did almost everything else right.