The Brian Hoyer thread...

[The Human Q-Tip]

Fun fact that could win you a bar bet: Nick Foles transferred to Arizona because he couldn't beat out...

Brian Hoyer at Michigan State. Now Foles plays for Chip the Ripper and his breakneck offense and everyone loves him.

Hoyer was three years ahead of Foles in college, more than three years older, and was the starting redshit junior when Foles was entering as a true freshman. If the reason for the transfer the next year was because he "couldn't beat out" Hoyer, it would hardly be a shocker. That would have required a redshirt freshman to beat out a 5th year senior QB. Not very likely.

The truth is that he was from Texas, had originally committed to ASU but then decided to go to MSU. Transferring to AZ may has been as much about him liking that area more than Michigan as it was about football, because he redshirted at AZ during Hoyer's senior year anyway.

But you just keep beating that homer drum....

 

[AZ_]

But you just keep beating that homer drum....

 

[jlj3184]

Look, Hoyer is a good QB. B00bie will never admit it. Hoyer is twice the QB Weeden could have dreamed of, even with all the boxes BW apparently checked in "scouts" eyes.

The problem with this team is the defensive line getting no pressure OR stopping the run, the secondary being flat out awful, and our dogshit special teams. Focus your energy debating how to fix those, NOT if Brian Hoyer is the 10th or 20th best QB. He is somewhere in that range the way he is playing. Let's enjoy it.

Even if we concede Hoyer is "twice the QB Weeden could have dreamed of", that does not equal a good QB. Our standards have been skewed so much over the past 15 years, that 'better than Weeden' somehow equates to 'good' in some people's eyes.

This is the Brian Hoyer thread, n'est-ce pas? Seems like the correct place to discuss Hoyer's relative standing in the league and the wrong place to discuss the other problems with this team.

 

[Randolphkeys]

But you just keep beating that homer drum....

You bet your nickel on Hoyer underperforming, he has been better than expected. No reason to be a dick about a Browns player doing well. Also, the tidbit about Foles was from a broadcaster during the third quarter last Sunday. Where did you get your info?

 

[AZ_]

You bet your nickel on Hoyer underperforming, he has been better than expected. No reason to be a dick about a Browns player doing well. Also, the tidbit about Foles was from a broadcaster during the third quarter last Sunday. Where did you get your info?

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2014/09/despite_transfer_michigan_stat.html

“Kirk Cousins came in, as I remember, had a great fall camp, and as most freshmen go (he) plateaued a little bit, leveled off, both of them did,’’ he said. “And then you had Brian Hoyer, he was obviously a fifth-year senior, much farther along in terms of the offense and things of that nature.’’

Foles transferred to Arizona in the spring of 2008, in part to be closer to home, and in part due to former Oklahoma QB Keith Nichol transferring to Michigan State.

On the Foles transfer...

With senior two-year starter Brian Hoyer set to exhaust his eligibility this fall, it appears Nichol will be going head-to-head with current redshirt freshman Kirk Cousins.

Michigan State's other scholarship quarterback, redshirt freshman Nick Foles, of Austin, Texas, plans to transfer to another school, according to his mother.

"He's going to put his name back in the hopper and see where there are opportunities," Melissa Foles said in a phone interview from Austin Wednesday afternoon. "I would say he would prefer to stay in the South just for logistics.

"The Nichols thing definitely is what caused Nick to really consider all the scenarios, along with being so far from home. Taking three quarterbacks in the same class just doesn't make a lot of sense, but I'm sure Coach has his reasons and we respect him for that."

Melissa Foles didn't see any possibility of her son having a change of heart.

"Coach has to do what he has to do, and Nick has to do what he needs to do," she said. "He appreciates his opportunities and experience he's gained and he leaves with a great feeling - there's no bitterness."

Broadcaster = wrong

 

[GreasySpread36]

Look, Hoyer is a good QB. B00bie will never admit it. Hoyer is twice the QB Weeden could have dreamed of, even with all the boxes BW apparently checked in "scouts" eyes.

The problem with this team is the defensive line getting no pressure OR stopping the run, the secondary being flat out awful, and our dogshit special teams. Focus your energy debating how to fix those, NOT if Brian Hoyer is the 10th or 20th best QB. He is somewhere in that range the way he is playing. Let's enjoy it.

As much as I like Hoyer he isn't good enough to be exonerated from the problems this team has had so far. In the Pittsburgh and Baltimore games we had three fourth-quarter possessions inside the opponents' 40-yard line that resulted in zero points. As the QB it's Hoyer's responsibility as much as anyone's- if not more- to make sure we capitalize on those kinds of opportunities. You can point to the kicking game, but we could have gotten into the end zone and didn't.

I'm just not a fan of saying, "Well, it isn't this guy's fault." It's a team game. It's everyone's fault in some way shape or form when we lose.

 

[AZ_]

Look, Hoyer is a good QB. B00bie will never admit it. Hoyer is twice the QB Weeden could have dreamed of, even with all the boxes BW apparently checked in "scouts" eyes.

The problem with this team is the defensive line getting no pressure OR stopping the run, the secondary being flat out awful, and our dogshit special teams. Focus your energy debating how to fix those, NOT if Brian Hoyer is the 10th or 20th best QB. He is somewhere in that range the way he is playing. Let's enjoy it.

It's honestly like you don't even read my posts.

 

[Randolphkeys]

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2014/09/despite_transfer_michigan_stat.html



On the Foles transfer...



Broadcaster = wrong

That sounds like a coach politely saying he had three NFL caliber QBs and Foles finished third. Foles lost a year of eligibility to transfer "closer to home with an assistant coach who recuited him."

But, I've known plenty of people who got screwed over by a recruiter switching to another school. It's no knock on Foles if he lost the "MSU QB of the Future" derby due to politics.

 

[AZ_]

That sounds like a coach politely saying he had three NFL caliber QBs and Foles finished third. Foles lost a year of eligibility to transfer "closer to home with an assistant coach who recuited him."

But, I've known plenty of people who got screwed over by a recruiter switching to another school. It's no knock on Foles if he lost the "MSU QB of the Future" derby due to politics.

Regardless of that, it had nothing to do with.....

".....beating out Hoyer at Michigan State"

As you said.

There wasn't a competition for Hoyer's job, he was already entrenched. He was competing with Cousins and eventually Nichol, which led to his transfer.

 

[The Oi]

Jesus. WGAF about this already?

 

[Mr. Orange]

It's honestly like you don't even read my posts.

I read them. Your posts have some wet blanket aspect to them regarding our QBs. And I like to give you some shit sometimes.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

You bet your nickel on Hoyer underperforming, he has been better than expected. No reason to be a dick about a Browns player doing well

Eh? I didn't bet anything on anyone. The most I said was after the NO game that if Hoyer's performance didn't improve, and if the coaches thought Manziel was ready, then I'd want to see Manziel after the bye. I also said the best case scenario was that Hoyer would improve and continue to start. Then, despite the fact that we lost to the Ravens and that he pretty much sucked in the 4th quarter, I thought Hoyer did show improvement and that he should continue to start. So where is me betting against him, or opposing a Browns' player doing well?

Also, the tidbit about Foles was from a broadcaster during the third quarter last Sunday. Where did you get your info?

Well, I knew that Foles came out years after Hoyer, so I looked the stuff up about their college careers here:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/nick-foles-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/brian-hoyer-1.html

And then looked them both up on Wikipedia.

The thing that has always concerned me most about Hoyer is his accuracy. In each of his three years as a starter in college, his completion % was below 60%. In each of Foles' years, he was over 60%. Foles' career college completion percentage was 66.8, and his completion % and rating went up every single year. Hoyer's career college completion percentage was more than ten points lower at only 55.8, and his best year in terms of accuracy and QB rating was his freshman year, with his senior year being his worst. He did have terrible receivers that last year, but still, he's not a guy who showed consistent growth in college. All this is from those sports reference links.

I'm not saying Hoyer can't be a successful NFL QB. But it seems like some people have decided they want him to be the guy, and so are stretching arguments and points to make him seem better than he has really been. This "Foles couldn't beat out Hoyer" thing just struck me as an example of trying to stretch an argument beyond credulity, so I responded by being more of a dick than you deserved.

Sorry about that.

 

[Randolphkeys]

I remembered Hoyer had a good junior year and was being talked about as a 4-5th round prospect. Then the numbers weren't too great his senior year (as you said they graduated their receivers) but he still had low interceptions, but then his interception ratio went straight to hell after a horrible bowl game performance. His stock dropped after that bowl game. That will teach you not to shit the bed in late December.

...and Foles still didn't beat out Hoyer. I'm taking my imaginary free beer on the imaginary bet.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

That sounds like a coach politely saying he had three NFL caliber QBs and Foles finished third. Foles lost a year of eligibility to transfer "closer to home with an assistant coach who recuited him."

Everyone knows QB's need development/playing time in college, and if you don't get it, you're screwed. MSU managed to end up with three QB's in the same class, including a highly-touted true freshman and two guys who later went on to play well in the NFL. Bad recruiting on their part, and they should have expected at least one of those guys to transfer to ensure that he got playing time.

What Foles did was smart, not a knock on his ability. Why take the risk you may not get a chance to start when you know you can go somewhere else had have a much better chance?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

I remembered Hoyer had a good junior year and was being talked about as a 4-5th round prospect. Then the numbers weren't too great his senior year (as you said they graduated their receivers) but he still had low interceptions, but then his interception ratio went straight to hell after a horrible bowl game performance. His stock dropped after that bowl game. That will teach you not to shit the bed in late December.

His junior year was his best, but he still couldn't even complete 60% of his passes. I don't believe on judging pro guys based on college performance in any sport. But, if people are going to argue that accuracy problems he's had in the pros are just a fluke, and just due to not getting enough playing time, then that's going a bit far for me.

I'm not saying he can't improve, but it would be more a case of being much more accurate than he's been in the past rather than recapturing his old form.