The Jonas V thread

[TyGuy]

Really grasping at straws here to try and justify the TT selection. Jonas absolutely should have been the pick and it sucks because a lot of us knew it even at the time. There is enough data now to backup this colossal mistake. Sure we didn't whiff completely and got a guy that can contribute, but it was quite obvious to most people at the time that Jonas should have been the selection. We are still looking for that center and unless a miracle happens and we land top 2, we most likely won't get an ideal center.

This has been brought up a million times, but you don't take a high pick and use it on a powerforward that can't score. It is the easiest position to fill in the NBA bar none, serviceable power forwards are available every year later in the draft. Centers just aren't available and all things being equal you take the center every time, in this case it was much worse because the center was more talented by quite a wide margin to boot.

 

[mAo_mAo]

Power forwards who cant score/unathletic/relies on hustle alone sounds like a perennial d leaguer. We fucked that pick.

 

[Los216]

Power forwards who cant score/unathletic/relies on hustle alone sounds like a perennial d leaguer. We fucked that pick.

Careful there. I compared TT to a D League player two months ago. I'm still recovering from the thrashing that the Maple Smash supporters gave me.

 

[Adam]

Really grasping at straws here to try and justify the TT selection. Jonas absolutely should have been the pick and it sucks because a lot of us knew it even at the time. There is enough data now to backup this colossal mistake. Sure we didn't whiff completely and got a guy that can contribute, but it was quite obvious to most people at the time that Jonas should have been the selection. We are still looking for that center and unless a miracle happens and we land top 2, we most likely won't get an ideal center.

This has been brought up a million times, but you don't take a high pick and use it on a powerforward that can't score. It is the easiest position to fill in the NBA bar none, serviceable power forwards are available every year later in the draft. Centers just aren't available and all things being equal you take the center every time, in this case it was much worse because the center was more talented by quite a wide margin to boot.

This is all true apart from the simple fact that Jonas did not want to play here, gave us the run around about his buyout and did everything possible to put us off. Even though he is the better player the cavs needed someone who would play for them, remember they had only 3 NBA players on the roster before that draft. Yes Jonas was the better player but it dies not mean had should have been the pick when all areas are considered. I'm not a fan of TT and hope he's traded by the draft, but I think it's unfair to look at the decision in a vacuum

 

[TyGuy]

This is all true apart from the simple fact that Jonas did not want to play here, gave us the run around about his buyout and did everything possible to put us off. Even though he is the better player the cavs needed someone who would play for them, remember they had only 3 NBA players on the roster before that draft. Yes Jonas was the better player but it dies not mean had should have been the pick when all areas are considered. I'm not a fan of TT and hope he's traded by the draft, but I think it's unfair to look at the decision in a vacuum

I'm not sure there was any confirmation on him giving us the run around. I heard that story, but I also heard that chris grant simply liked tt more. I mean you have max saying this is a top 5 mistake, so I can only assume if we would have drafted him that he would have played here. We had another Lithuanian center that was quite successful here. The story about him not wanting to play here could have all been rubbish to soften the blow of passing on the more talented player who fills a position that is incredibly tough fill.

Either way you still don't take a power forward who struggles to score and amounts to an energy big with that high of a pick. That type of player is useful, but guys like him can be found later in the draft virtually every year.



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[Cashius X]

I'm not sure there was any confirmation on him giving us the run around. I heard that story, but I also heard that chris grant simply liked tt more. I mean you have max saying this is a top 5 mistake so I can only assume if we would have drafted him that he would have played here. We had another Lithuanian center that was quite successful here. The story about him not wanting to play here could have all been rubbish to soften the blow of passing on the more talented player who fills a position that is incredibly tough fill.

Either way you still don't take a power forward who struggles to score and amounts to an energy big with that high of a pick. That type of player is useful, but guys like him can be found later in the draft virtually every year.



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Hindsight is 20/20.

Looking at mock drafts from 2011, TT was rated as roughly the 9th best prospect. The majority of mocks had him being selected at #8. He was projected as more than an energy big man.

 

[TyGuy]

Hindsight is 20/20.

Looking at mock drafts from 2011, TT was rated as roughly the 9th best prospect. The majority of mocks had him being selected at #8. He was projected as more than an energy big man.

Mock drafts are rubbish, Dion at one point was a late first round pick on many mock draft sites, but that didn't stop Chris Grant from taking Dion at 4. Also, a lot of people at the time including myself were not happy because that's what he was viewed as (energy big man).

 

[The Process God]

Mock drafts are rubbish, Dion at one point was a late first round pick on many mock draft sites, but that didn't stop Chris Grant from taking Dion at 4. Also, a lot of people at the time including myself were not happy because that's what he was viewed as (energy big man).

Pretty much. Dion was a lot higher on every draft board of every front office than he was on the average draft board that you'd find on a mock draft website. He was a well-kept secret that had everyone snapping their fingers in disappointment when he was drafted. GMs were able to do what mock draft websites could not. They were able to wade through the bullshit of all of the mitigating factors that made him look less impressive than he really was such as playing on the bench.

 

[Pioneer10]

There was no consensus pick for us at 4 in the Dion draft (It would have been Lillard but we had Irving)
-Drummond has turned into a conundrum that many GM's feared.
-GM's were rightfully souring on Barnes
-Would have been scary right if we had gotten JV and then drafted Robinson for the 4:all the TT hate would be going to T. Rob lol

On the other hand: the problem with the TT pick was that JV was the consensus pick. He fit a need, who cared if he stayed overseas another year as we were going to be tanking anyways, and he had a good motor which is hard to find in a center. Only saving grace is that maybe that prevented us from drafting T. Rob the next year.

 

[The Process God]

There was no consensus pick for us at 4 in the Dion draft (It would have been Lillard but we had Irving)
-Drummond has turned into a conundrum that many GM's feared.
-GM's were rightfully souring on Barnes
-Would have been scary right if we had gotten JV and then drafted Robinson for the 4:all the TT hate would be going to T. Rob lol

On the other hand: the problem with the TT pick was that JV was the consensus pick. He fit a need, who cared if he stayed overseas another year as we were going to be tanking anyways, and he had a good motor which is hard to find in a center. Only saving grace is that maybe that prevented us from drafting T. Rob the next year.

The only thing about using the argument that TT, a power forward, potentially stopped us from drafting Thomas Robinson, also a power forward, is that we ended up drafting Anthony Bennett, also a power forward, the following draft. I think that the Cavs really were higher on Dion than they were Thomas Robinson.

I also don't think that there was necessarily any confirmation that we would have picked Lillard. It sounds like you're basing your opinion more so off of how good he has been rather than how he was really ranked. If there is any confirmation that we wanted Lillard, I'd like to see it.

 

[mAo_mAo]

Even if JV did not want to come here, having his draft rights alone is an asset. Centers with good motor, exceptional length, and budding basketball skills are coveted around the league that even if he forced our hand for a trade he could net a better value than TT.

 

[The Process God]

Even if JV did not want to come here, having his draft rights alone is an asset. Centers with good motor, exceptional length, and budding basketball skills are coveted around the league that even if he forced our hand for a trade he could net a better value than TT.

His value would have been greatly diminished had we drafted him and not had him ever play a game for us. His value now is higher than it was before he was drafted.

A 21-year-old center who has shown he can hang with the big guys and has a lot of upside is more enticing than a 19-year-old center who is unproven and has a lot of upside.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

Does anyone know of any international players picked in the top 5 that have refused to come over to play on the team that drafted them? Were there any international players that were drafted in the top 5 that held their team hostage and demanded a trade? Throughout the history of the NBA, I could only think of Kobe and Danny Ferry that refused to play for the team that drafted them. One was a high school phenom, the other won several national player of the year awards. Compared to those guys, who the fuck is Jonas Valaciunas to start demanding anything? Like an earlier article said, CG didn't do proper research on JV and just wanted any excuse NOT to draft JV cause he already fell in love with TT. The same TT that was highly touted as an uber athletic, high energy, defensive beast.

 

[Cassity14]

I think the runaround was a very real thing. We heard Valanciunas' name quite a bit all season long connected with the Cavs. Irving, Barnes, Valanciunas. Those were the guys, in order, that the Cavs wanted from that draft. Windy was one of multiple guys to report that.

Didn't Rubio kind of mess with the Timberwolves about finally coming over. Wasn't it 2+ seasons that he delayed? I think the Cavs, a team very similar to Minnesota, were probably afraid of that.

 

[Spencer Hawes]

I think the runaround was a very real thing. We heard Valanciunas' name quite a bit all season long connected with the Cavs. Irving, Barnes, Valanciunas. Those were the guys, in order, that the Cavs wanted from that draft. Windy was one of multiple guys to report that.

Didn't Rubio kind of mess with the Timberwolves about finally coming over. Wasn't it 2+ seasons that he delayed? I think the Cavs, a team very similar to Minnesota, were probably afraid of that.

No, he wanted to come to the NBA regardless of who drafted him. He was under contract for two more seasons when he was drafted and his team didn't want to release him. Although there may be some truth to it, the talk about JV having problems with his buyout was put to rest cause a few days after the draft, his buyout was in place. The buyout was a convenient excuse for CG cause he already fell in love with TT and didn't do his due diligence on JV. If JV's club didn't want to release him then that's fine but if a player said they would be willing to leave millions on the table cause they didn't want to play for an NBA team, I would call him out on it. Nobody that young would be stupid enough to do that.

Grant didn't call JV and his agent's bluff cause he already had his guy in TT.