The Official Game of Thrones [A Song of Ice and Fire] Thread (includes spoilers)

[Adam]

I dont get the outrage...i was expecting much more, its ramsey bolton!

Spoiler

Clearly they plan on having a insurrection at winterfell and a stannis attack that is more successful than in the books

 

[Sebastian]

It will be all the more satisfying when the Boltons resemble a Memorial Day BBQ.

 

[Chris]

Oh for sure I completely understand that. And I totally get being outraged that a character you love had something horrible happen to them. I mean, that was the Red Wedding and the dozens of other horrifying things that have happened to these characters all over again. I'm more surprised at the people mad at HBO and the writers as if how could they show something so horrible on a show about horrible thing after horrible thing. Confusing to me.

So people are outraged that the scene was in the show or outraged that Ramsay did such a thing?

Personally I found the scene upsetting but as a huge fan of the books and the series, I know it's a dark story and a dark world, I'm obviously not "offended" by it. Just like any other horrible thing done by someone in the story, I'm hoping Ramsay gets his comeuppance.

I'm wondering if they really are just going to sub Sansa in for Jeyne and have Theon and Sansa escape Winterfell and run right into the clutches of Stannis. If they do, I have zero clue where the story for Sansa goes from there.

 

[RonG]

I didn't really find the last scene to be that big of a deal. Clearly it wasn't rape. So he made that pos reek watch, meh.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

There's a lot of criticism out there that the Sansa/Ramsay scene was completely gratuitous and didn't advance the plot. That's ridiculous.

Littlefinger left Sansa in Winterfell to play the "long game" of ingratiating herself with the Boltons until LF is ready to make his move. And she might have done that but for Ramsay's brutality.

If she's taking the Jeyne Poole role, then she needs that same motivation to risk her life and flee Winterfell with Theon, and subsequently meet Stannis. Or at least meet Brienne. Jumping off a wall/fleeing into a blizzard is not something most people are willing to do absent some extremely compelling motivation.

That scene provided it.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

So people are outraged that the scene was in the show or outraged that Ramsay did such a thing?

Personally I found the scene upsetting but as a huge fan of the books and the series, I know it's a dark story and a dark world, I'm obviously not "offended" by it. Just like any other horrible thing done by someone in the story, I'm hoping Ramsay gets his comeuppance.

I'm wondering if they really are just going to sub Sansa in for Jeyne and have Theon and Sansa escape Winterfell and run right into the clutches of Stannis. If they do, I have zero clue where the story for Sansa goes from there.

Well, Sansa then does the same as Jeyne - runs into Stannis, who now has the Stark heir he so desperately needs. Except this time, it will be a legitimate one.

I imagine that from that point, she will be the Wardeness of the North during the fight with the Others. At least until Rick on shoe up.

 

[Chris]

Will Theon tell Sansa he didn't kill her brothers? I imagine she'd have to in order to get her talking to him, and the preview for next week shows them talking or at least implies it.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

Will Theon tell Sansa he didn't kill her brothers? I imagine she'd have to in order to get her talking to him, and the preview for next week shows them talking or at least implies it.

I assume so. That scene gives him the moral push to overcome his fear, be honest with her, and flee Reek with Sansa. And it gives her a motive to take the same risk.

How either of them get to that point believably without that scene is beyond me.

 

[theSTEREO.]

So people are outraged that the scene was in the show or outraged that Ramsay did such a thing?

Personally I found the scene upsetting but as a huge fan of the books and the series, I know it's a dark story and a dark world, I'm obviously not "offended" by it. Just like any other horrible thing done by someone in the story, I'm hoping Ramsay gets his comeuppance.

I'm wondering if they really are just going to sub Sansa in for Jeyne and have Theon and Sansa escape Winterfell and run right into the clutches of Stannis. If they do, I have zero clue where the story for Sansa goes from there.

Yeah, like Q-Tip said, people were outraged that it was gratuitous and a big swath of the show-hating book reader crowd basically swore off the show "for good" last night. That AngryGoTFan guy basically called it an affront to woman, posted phone numbers for victims of abuse to call, and more or less called the showrunners monsters.

A lost of the recaps echoed some of that. Greenwald for one, and a few others.

Basically people said that an act like that should never be a plot device. Which, I mean, it's horrible, brutal thing done by a psychopathic monster of a character. But, it literally is a plot device dozens upon dozens of times in the books, and even a number of times on the show. So I don't really understand that.

The one fair criticism I did see is that they spent a great deal of time building up Sansa to finally be a strong, take charge, independent player in this game, and if they use this kind of action to strip her back down to just a meek feminine pawn, then yeah I can understand the anger. But I just get the sense that Sansa is going to continue to be a strong character and will still be a catalyst for the downfall of the Boltons.

 

[Chris]

I assume so. That scene gives him the moral push to overcome his fear, be honest with her, and flee Reek with Sansa. And it gives her a motive to take the same risk.

How either of them get to that point believably without that scene is beyond me.

I'm starting to see that that scene may have been more about Theon, hence the focus on his face during the whole thing. I think it may proven necessary for what they do next with Theon, which, we can all assume, is what happens in the books (fleeing Winterfell with Sansa).

Was interesting to see him say his real name at Sansa's wedding, by the way. Theon come back to us!

 

[Chris]

Yeah, like Q-Tip said, people were outraged that it was gratuitous and a big swath of the show-hating book reader crowd basically swore off the show "for good" last night. That AngryGoTFan guy basically called it an affront to woman, posted phone numbers for victims of abuse to call, and more or less called the showrunners monsters.

A lost of the recaps echoed some of that. Greenwald for one, and a few others.

Basically people said that an act like that should never be a plot device. Which, I mean, it's horrible, brutal thing done by a psychopathic monster of a character. But, it literally is a plot device dozens upon dozens of times in the books, and even a number of times on the show. So I don't really understand that.

The one fair criticism I did see is that they spent a great deal of time building up Sansa to finally be a strong, take charge, independent player in this game, and if they use this kind of action to strip her back down to just a meek feminine pawn, then yeah I can understand the anger. But I just get the sense that Sansa is going to continue to be a strong character and will still be a catalyst for the downfall of the Boltons.

That last part is a valid complaint. My question is, what did people expect or want to happen? We knew the two were imminently about to be married. In this world, it's a big thing that the marriage be consummated that night, and we've seen this brought up several times on the TV show (at the Twins before the Red Wedding, and Tyrion/Sansa notably) so why are people so shocked? Basically, we all knew this was coming. Did people think Ramsay was going to be a sweet talking kind gentle husband to Sansa? In reality, it truly did have to happen. All I ask is they 1) shoot it tastefully as possible (which they did), and 2) use it to further the plot somehow.

Which I assume will happen. As I keep saying, this is what is going to snap Theon out of being Reek. Pretty much guaransheed.

 

[CardiacCavs]

Yeah, echoing what stereo said, I saw quite a few feminists who are in my classes swear off of GOT after last night because of their use of rape as a plot device. Seems kinda ridiculous to me but whatever. Their loss. I agree with those who are saying that scene was about theon as much as it was about sansa. Alfie Allen has been brilliant playing a broken man. I can't wait to see his redemption arc. It was my favorite part of ADWD.

Can you imagine how many fans have been converted to Stannis fans without him even appearing in the episode? They are gonna be rooting for him so hard now.

 

[kosis]

The more I dwell on it, the more I like the change of having it be Sansa over Jeyne Poole. The escape will be that much more satisfying, as will anything that happens to Roose/Ramsay.

I will say, that as uncomfortable as it was to see Sansa in that position, if they DIDN'T have Ramsay do it, it would have been a huge cop out on the show. Hell, even Elio has said as much on Twitter.

 

[theSTEREO.]

The more I dwell on it, the more I like the change of having it be Sansa over Jeyne Poole. The escape will be that much more satisfying, as will anything that happens to Roose/Ramsay.

I will say, that as uncomfortable as it was to see Sansa in that position, if they DIDN'T have Ramsay do it, it would have been a huge cop out on the show. Hell, even Elio has said as much on Twitter.

Yeah I was surprised to see Dolorous Elio as one of the ones being on board with it.

 

[kosis]

Yeah I was surprised to see Dolorous Elio as one of the ones being on board with it.

Those WesterosOrg kids are too insufferable to follow, but was also surprised to see that re-tweeted on my timeline.