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Trade Deadline Thread

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The Wizard of Moz said:
I'm sorry but any stat saying Salazar is better than Greinke isn't getting any attention from me. There is a long list of guys I would take over the cc who is ranked 70th in era and 88th in war

I like our staff, but it is getting a little overrated at this point. Like I said though I still wouldn't trade him for the points you originally made
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Hey man, I'm not saying that I agree with it, just stats back them up pretty well. Reason why the Indians are so highly touted there is they have absurd BABIP rates against them. I mean, that .341 BABIP against Carrasco is ridiculous, means he has been incredibly unlucky. SIERA takes into account things pitchers can actually control, you know, walks, strikeouts, etc...essentially a new form of FIP and xFIP.

Still doesn't change my point, you don't trade high quality starters signed for the long-term on team friendly deals for guys who aren't sure things at the MLB level or sure fire prospects.
 
BimboColesHair said:
Read up on SIERA, used by Fangraphs, which they are trying to use to determine a pitchers skill level: http://www.fangraphs.com/library/pitching/siera/

For THIS YEAR, check out who is #6 (and 7 and 10 if you want to feel better about things):

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Meh. The stats show how good Carrasco is when his head is in the game. Watching him, though, you see the same maturity issues still popping up. He is still having these hiccup games every few outings where he is simply not good. Thing is, he keeps the walks down and still gets his Ks in these outings, so his advanced stats still glow.

Look, Carrasco is 28. This was the season, after his outstanding 2nd half, where he was to put it all together. He just hasn't. The advanced stats once loved Matt Clement, too. He is obviously a valuable guy and belongs in the team and I agree that the Jays deal wasnt it. However, if the club gets a deal that knocks their dollar store socks off they need to do it with him.
 
I don't agree with trading away their pitching. It's just very risky giving up pitching.

One hitter, maybe even two, might not make a dramatic difference, unless we're getting back someone that's like Mike Trout good down the line, and that's not happening.

They should hold onto their core pitching. I don't really give a shit what they do at the deadline to be honest.

If they start drafting better, we won't have this problem.

I'm not trading away good and promising pitching, because we fucking suck at drafting good every day players.

That just makes me want to scream.

If they made that trade, then I'd be convinced they don't know what they're doing at all.
 
macbdog said:
Meh. The stats show how good Carrasco is when his head is in the game. Watching him, though, you see the same maturity issues still popping up. He is still having these hiccup games every few outings where he is simply not good. Thing is, he keeps the walks down and still gets his Ks in these outings, so his advanced stats still glow.

Look, Carrasco is 28. This was the season, after his outstanding 2nd half, where he was to put it all together. He just hasn't. The advanced stats once loved Matt Clement, too. He is obviously a valuable guy and belongs in the team and I agree that the Jays deal wasnt it. However, if the club gets a deal that knocks their dollar store socks off they need to do it with him.
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Again, a .341 BABIP tells me he has been incredibly unlucky, especially for a guy with his kind of swing and miss stuff. Willing to bet that is one of the highest in the league for starting pitchers, if not the highest in the league. You want to call that "hiccup games", go for it, but that figure will not stay that way over the duration of his contract he signed with us, which will in turn make those "maturity issues" and "hiccup games" go away.

Indians staff as a whole has been very unlucky this year when the ball is put into play, considering all of them miss bats more often than every other team in the league...very promising for anyone who still has hope for the next few years that this group is together.

And is that 28 age supposed to scare me?
 
Why would 28 scare you? It is his prime. He has reached his potential. Again, I've seen the hits when he gives up runs... A lot of those are not lucky. And as others have noted, Lindor has transformed this defense into one of the best in baseball according to the advanced stats. So why is Carlos still having these 5 run/5 inning outings every 3-4 games? Why didn't he have those last year in the 2nd half, when the defense was mediocre at best? 3B, SS and 2b are all better based on the defensive metrics now. Can't just keep blaming luck for a guy with a history of letting his emotions get the better of him.
 
macbdog said:
Why would 28 scare you? It is his prime. He has reached his potential. Again, I've seen the hits when he gives up runs... A lot of those are not lucky. And as others have noted, Lindor has transformed this defense into one of the best in baseball according to the advanced stats. So why is Carlos still having these 5 run/5 inning outings every 3-4 games? Why didn't he have those last year in the 2nd half, when the defense was mediocre at best? 3B, SS and 2b are all better based on the defensive metrics now. Can't just keep blaming luck for a guy with a history of letting his emotions get the better of him.
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Dude, you aren't going to convince me the guy isn't having an unlucky year. It happens in baseball, any who has ever played knows this.

His career BABIP figure right now, including this ridiculous .341 season, is .316, 25 points lower than what he is currently giving up, and he wasn't nearly as good as he is now when most of that figure was made.

Also, 28 is as far as he is progressing? I'm sure people said the same thing about 27 year old Corey Kluber being what he is at that age...or does that 1 year make a difference?
 
Bourn and Moss have been doing positive things today. Trade them while their stock is at an all time high.
 
22 and hasn't reached AA yet, what's wrong? He's been tracked since 17.
 
BimboColesHair said:
Dude, you aren't going to convince me the guy isn't having an unlucky year. It happens in baseball, any who has ever played knows this.

His career BABIP figure right now, including this ridiculous .341 season, is .316, 25 points lower than what he is currently giving up, and he wasn't nearly as good as he is now when most of that figure was made.

Also, 28 is as far as he is progressing? I'm sure people said the same thing about 27 year old Corey Kluber being what he is at that age...or does that 1 year make a difference?
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Funny, I would think if the Tribe felt it was an unlucky year that they wouldn't be peddling him. And I didn't realize when a guy posts a 4.60 ERA in a month that started with a one hitter that the culprit wasn't a propensity for big innings but 'bad luck.' I'm trying to figure out why he should not be held responsible in any way for posting mediocre results. I must not share your love of solid color ball caps.

As for Kluber... what is your point? He turned the corner at 27 then followed up at 28 winning the Cy Young. Pretty bad example.
 
Puig's bat flips are more entertaining than anything the Indians have done all season, and I will take him for that reason.
 
macbdog said:
Funny, I would think if the Tribe felt it was an unlucky year that they wouldn't be peddling him. And I didn't realize when a guy posts a 4.60 ERA in a month that started with a one hitter that the culprit wasn't a propensity for big innings but 'bad luck.' I'm trying to figure out why he should not be held responsible in any way for posting mediocre results. I must not share your love of solid color ball caps.

As for Kluber... what is your point? He turned the corner at 27 then followed up at 28 winning the Cy Young. Pretty bad example.
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I'm not saying it is ALL bad luck. It's a part of it, but it certainly isn't the only factor. No place have I said that at any point that it is all on luck. He can be better, I think that is obvious (his hard hit ball % has rose way us this year compared to last year), but it is also obvious that he isn't getting many breaks to go his way, and the same thing is happening to Kluber this year as well.

And my point about Kluber is you just tried to peddle to me that Carrasco is done progressing at 28 and has reached his peak...that's bullshit. I just watched a 27 year old Kluber all of a sudden become one of the best pitchers in baseball at age 28. To say a 28 year old is tapped out is BS, especially one who is a late bloomer like Carrasco.

And who is saying the Indians are the ones shopping him around? How do we not know that the Blue Jays weren't the ones asking about him and leaking it out to other teams that they are interested in him, seeing as how they are trying to acquire a starting pitcher? That's what I assumed happened in this case.
 
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