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Tristan Thompson

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I've seen flashes from Bennett of a skillset that each team wishes they had in a guy capable of playing minutes at PF.

Not the ideal height or length but his build and his strength makes up for it in the limited time he was asked to guard PFs. I was impressed by his defensive play on guys trying to work on him in the post and want to see him given the opportunity to play through the usual jitters that rookies have under the bright lights of gametime while finding out the best way to attack defenses at this level.

I am still drinking the Kool-Aid with regards to Bennett.

I'm not with either Tristan or JV: pretty bad draft. Wish we had traded the pick frankly with how weak that draft was.
 
yet Tristan was on the court with bynum when the starting unit jumped out into an 8 point lead and clark came in and the ball stopped.

This team is compsosed of 2 different units that play entirely two different kinds of basketball. mix and matching through the game is often going to happen as the 1st unit and 2nd unit lear to play with each other skills.

opposing team linups are a factor here as well.

Thompson though has the skillset to blend in with either unit but sometimes they might not be on the same page.

What creates spacing against the bucks might be different than what creates spacing against the blazer or heat.

not accounting for the strength and skills of the opossing lineup. a son of a long time high school coach should know this because we can see it at that level too
Pretty sure Tristan was on the bench with foul trouble when we built the lead in the 1st quarter.
 
Thompson is posting up at 19.5 percent of his plays. shooting 50% and averaging .97 PPP from that position. as a pick and roll man it account for 11% of his plays and he is shooting 62% at 1.16 PPP
to put into context
Kevin Love. 24.5% of his plays are from the post up. .8 PPP 36% FG
Andre Drummond a Center post up 8.4%of his plays .67 PPP at 40% fg
David West- post up 35% of his plays. .93 PPP at 46%.
Lamarcus aldridge post up 43% of his plays. .88 PPP at 40.3% FG
Zach Randolph is posting up 44% of his plays .88 PPP at 44.4%
Andrew Bynum 60% of his plays. .79 PPP 39% shooting

Thompson right now is getting where he can hurt you with his post up game. Beat you off the Pick and Roll , come at you with a cut. and soon reliably drain you from the spot up.

Shut down one part of his game they can use him in another. He is a very versatile PF who has been given the freedom to grow. They even let him run out of isolation. which I wouldnt be surprise he perfoms at a proficient level in year 4 or 5.

he is a guy you can feature 10-12 minutes a game and if the team does make adjustment Tristan is learning to adapt and change attack modes.

Theres alot of individual development going on with this team that can give it an a la carte appearence time to time but when these guys start blending the pieces and playing off each other games. which we are seeing more and more of . it will be a spectacular thing to watch.

Thompson is also a sponge. Hes absorbed alot of AV's pick and roll game and is starting to see how to play from the post like Bynum.

This kind of versatility is essential when you have guard driven play

The problem with this analysis is a lot like medical studies which is my field. You don't reach your primary endpoint so to be able the publish the paper in a respectable journal, you end up trying to find "significant" changes using sub analysis. Because larger studies collect a large amount of data, it's actually statistically likely you will something that has p value < 0.05 and so you have your finding.

This is why I like looking at his overall numbers like TS% and it's just not being very good for a PF who plays close to the basket. For all his improvement, he is extremely mechanical in the way he plays with very little fluidity. He's entering his third year in the league and even with the hand switch, teams just don't have to bother too much in terms of accounting for him.

I'm not saying Thompson is a bad player. Far from it, he'll likely be a starter or a first big off the bench for the remainder of his career and I think the Cavs don't use him enough touches when he appears to be in the zone a bit. He's just not going to be a guy who you absolutely need to go from a being a lottery level team to a contender. Unless he does become a fairly deadly mid range shooter, I stand by my statement that Thompson simply isn't going to be a guy who other teams are focus their defense like a Kyrie and now possibly Dion.
 
Pretty sure Tristan was on the bench with foul trouble when we built the lead in the 1st quarter.

DWreck, dont even waste your keystrokes family.

Nothing said there was substantive. Literally just posted that because the narrative is that I hate Tristan and someone is bound to give "thanks" to anyone who counters my take on how we use him. :chuckles:

Tornitroll, we agree to disagree and I look forward to your excitement when you see how well this team starts building momentum and running away with games once the floor spacing is fixed with the starters.
 
I dont even partake in Tristan Thompson discussion here anymore.

No use. Only a matter of time before he is put in the proper role he should be in. Whether it is Clark or Bennett, this team (more specifically Bynum) needs a floor spacer at the 4 to reach their full potential.

Last night, we built a 7-8 point lead and the offense was moving the ball and attacking one of the worst defenses in the league. As soon as Tristan came back in, that all stopped. Not because Tristan holds the ball or sabotages offense intentionally, but because he does not have to be guarded and it allowed the Bucks to start defending us 5 on 4. They tried to force Tristan into being a threat a few times once they CORRECTLY identified that every trip down, Milwaukee was putting their worst defender (Kris Middleton in most lineups) on Tristan and daring him to make an offensive move that Henson or NBA-DLeague-level-bizarro-Ostertag could not help and recover to stop.

Tristan traveled, drew a charge, and got stripped trying to bull his way to a bucket everytime.

Where Tristan DOES excel, is crashing the glass because his defender leaves him to help shrink the court for penetrating Jack and Kyrie.

Someone who doesnt quite understand the way this whole basketball thing works, would look at the stat sheet and cream themselves saying... OMG, Tristan had 8 offensive rebounds and that really great rebound where his awesome instincts magnetically made him tip the ball in to tie the game. I got up out of my seat when Tristan got his tip, it was a GREAT play and it really showed his motor and resiliency. But that hero play was only made possible by the speedbump Tristan provided for our offense that was humming along and exploiting Milwaukee for sagging off and playing a matchup zone. Clark burned them for this. And when he did, Henson/Udoh started staying home more and then Andy started burning them with pick and roll wizardry with each Irving, Jack and Delly because the floor was open enough for him to do so with Clark's man having to stay home.

I really like Tristan. I do. That clip where he was interacting with the babies and reading books and he and Moondog were pinching each other's ass cheeks, that was really cute. But for the betterment of this team KICKING ASS on the court, we need to put him in the role that suits his skillset and compliments the rest of our players as best as possible. That is as a reserve. Preferably in the reserve role that Andy is currently limping around in. Doesnt have the IQ or passing of Andy, but not too many around the leauge do, so... not Tristans fault there. Andy is getting up there Tristan has the durability and father time on his side so he should be the guy to get that role and grow in that role moving forward. (shrugs)

Each of the past almost 10 games, I have watched Bynum start off playing very engaged and aggressive on D. Then as it becomes apparent that he doesnt have the room to operate like his moody-ass would like to on offense, he starts flailing his arms and pouting after being frustrated on offense and his effort level wanes on both ends of the court. last night Austin made mention of the worst-kept secret that looks to be festering on a nightly basis... Bynum gets frustrated with his lack of involvement over the course of a game. But what is the cause? Kyrie is committed to force feeding him down there to start games, but when he gets it, he simply doesnt have the room to operate and set himself up for plays like that BEAUTIFUL right hook that he bounced home methodically in the first half on a consistent basis. Tristans man leaves him and crowds the paint too effectively and Tristan does not make them pay for doing so.

Again, love him as a personality and steady influence around the team/lockerroom. Just feel that just like Waiters, he is currently miscast in our system/rotation that is being established and looking like it has promise by being asked to be a stretch 4 that he is not.

100% agree.

People say you don't draft someone #4 to play the bench. Just not true. Your top sub on a quality team can be your 3rd best player. What you don't do is draft someone #1 to play the bench. Bennett needs to start and to get his confidence and conditioning. Period. Grant needs to force this.

I don't think TT or Dion were bad picks, but both of their skill sets are best as smoty types. The real issue here is you really only need 1 smoty and we have 2. Long term, I think Dion or TT need traded to make room for a more balanced roster. Not bad picks, but as of now, they are both odd fits as starters.
 
Never mind.

Smoty= sixth man of the year
 
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The problem with this analysis is a lot like medical studies which is my field. You don't reach your primary endpoint so to be able the publish the paper in a respectable journal, you end up trying to find "significant" changes using sub analysis. Because larger studies collect a large amount of data, it's actually statistically likely you will something that has p value < 0.05 and so you have your finding.

This is why I like looking at his overall numbers like TS% and it's just not being very good for a PF who plays close to the basket. For all his improvement, he is extremely mechanical in the way he plays with very little fluidity. He's entering his third year in the league and even with the hand switch, teams just don't have to bother too much in terms of accounting for him.

I'm not saying Thompson is a bad player. Far from it, he'll likely be a starter or a first big off the bench for the remainder of his career and I think the Cavs don't use him enough touches when he appears to be in the zone a bit. He's just not going to be a guy who you absolutely need to go from a being a lottery level team to a contender. Unless he does become a fairly deadly mid range shooter, I stand by my statement that Thompson simply isn't going to be a guy who other teams are focus their defense like a Kyrie and now possibly Dion.

How many championships do all these stretch 4s you would prefer over Thompson have?

you have a generic dimissal of my analysis related to medical research. yet you favor TS metric.

not every team can have a dirk nowitski stretching the floor and there others way to provide floor spacing.

Anyways your refute is bullshit. It shows exactly what type of shots he is taking and where he is taking them as well as a set progression each year. this isnt advanced chemistry.. we arent trying to find the DNA formula of a molecule.

You dont care about the advantages because he isnt your ideal stretch 4.

Tristan gets 4.8 touches a game within 5 feet.

he gets about 4 touches a game within 12 feet.

he gets about 35.5 frontcourt touches per game

My analysis is based off what he does. Your analysis is based of some imagined connotation of what you think a pf should be.

His sub categories show a clear picture of his strength and weaknesses and his percentages show the value in relation to his actual attempts. Im certainly not trying to hide anything. they happened to coincide with my opinions for i looked up the stat. in fact I was surprised his overall post game was performing as efficient. I also included a sample of other players in similiar situations and included their percentages as a reference. I also showed his perfomance from other statistics that correlated to my results and let people draw their own conclusion.

Now instead of establishing a 15-19 foot range game which Thompson is clearly doing you want him to be "deadly"
 
Even after correcting my most recent post, I still say reading Tornicade's posts is like reading a cryptogram with some hyrogliphics mixed in.
 
I don't think TT or Dion were bad picks, but both of their skill sets are best as smoty types. The real issue here is you really only need 1 smoty and we have 2. Long term, I think Dion or TT need traded to make room for a more balanced roster. Not bad picks, but as of now, they are both odd fits as starters.

Not sure, in regard to trade Lee.

Ultimately, what it all comes down to is what your valuation of a player is for your team. Dion, is the second most valuable player to this team right now. If you ask me, and its not even close for the next asset as of now.

Im over the "draft pick = perceived value of player" feeling. I have to be, because we cant get those draft picks back and it does no good for our team even letting that factor into the argument now. The same needs to be accepted by those who are holding firm and overvaluing what a player is capable of based off where he was drafted.

Truth of the matter is, Tristan and Dion both have value as young players in this league. Dion with the ball in his hands is the second best player we have and a dynamic guard in this league... something that is very high and indemand. Tristan is a limited player both in offensive ability and game changing defensive ability but he is a steady defensively solid energy big man and those are not a dime a dozen as much as they are readily accessible for the right price most summers. We have to look past the draft pick perceived value and do whats best for this team moving forward if we ever dream of getting our championship with this rebuild.

I feel Grant swallowed his pride and made that decision this summer, now we need to commit to the decision he made by either starting Bennett or starting Clark with a clear nod to Bennett that the seat is his as soon as is fully in shape and ready to play more minutes.
 
Even after correcting my most recent post, I still say reading Tornicade's posts is like reading a cryptogram with some hyrogliphics mixed in.

egyptian_hieroglyphs.jpg


AQRS UBQ YBR
 
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If Bennett turns his game around over the next two seasons like Tornicade has turned his posting around over the last year or so, he'll be the next Eddy Curry.
 
All I will say is this...

Tristan started off slow last year and came on late. He is mechanical, which worries me, but if it goes in I really don't care.

He hasn't looked great but his right handed shot is new. He's actually hit it at a decent clip but he doesn't have confidence in it.

If previous years are any indication - he will come on later and we will see what he really has to offer in the new year.

While I don't think he will ever be a true 'stretch 4', I do think he can be capable of reliably hitting that jumper. If, and when, he can I don't see issues with spacing. He just needs to find confidence in the shot and not think about it.

That's me. But the kid has shown a lot of development since he came here. I feel like the next two years will be very telling. We drafted him raw and based on what he could become and each year he's found ways to better. I don't really know what this kid will become but I just sense he can become an all-star. Never a super-star, but I do think all-star is very possible.
 
So Thompson is a 6th man of the year candidate? An x-factor off the bench? Odd fit in the starting lineup?

Alright, I'll bite.

Rch, I really do understand the reasoning. And the other highly rated posters here, including Max, believe this is Tristan's limit. And really... I do see this reason at the present. Tristan really can't expand the role beyond garbage duty.

But...

Case scenario, Tristan actually gains confidence in shot years before Andy reached his peak. If he's a rich man's Andy, more athletic, healthy, and similar shooting stroke, does it make him capable of starting based on that improvement?

Okay, he may not gain the shot before the season ends. But what about the evolution he's capable of? He's hardly a finished product. And he's willing in both roles, he's Andy's replacement. He might be a fringe guy.

Max, anybody close to the team, is he capable of evolving further?

If he evolves, is he capable of changing your perception, Rch? I'd look forward to the possible change by the end of the season at least.
 
How many championships do all these stretch 4s you would prefer over Thompson have?

you have a generic dimissal of my analysis related to medical research. yet you favor TS metric.

not every team can have a dirk nowitski stretching the floor and there others way to provide floor spacing.

Anyways your refute is bullshit. It shows exactly what type of shots he is taking and where he is taking them as well as a set progression each year. this isnt advanced chemistry.. we arent trying to find the DNA formula of a molecule.

You dont care about the advantages because he isnt your ideal stretch 4.

Tristan gets 4.8 touches a game within 5 feet.

he gets about 4 touches a game within 12 feet.

he gets about 35.5 frontcourt touches per game

My analysis is based off what he does. Your analysis is based of some imagined connotation of what you think a pf should be.

His sub categories show a clear picture of his strength and weaknesses and his percentages show the value in relation to his actual attempts. Im certainly not trying to hide anything. they happened to coincide with my opinions for i looked up the stat. in fact I was surprised his overall post game was performing as efficient. I also included a sample of other players in similiar situations and included their percentages as a reference. I also showed his perfomance from other statistics that correlated to my results and let people draw their own conclusion.

Now instead of establishing a 15-19 foot range game which Thompson is clearly doing you want him to be "deadly"

Umm what is bullshit is replying to me when you are referring to other people. I never said anything about an "ideal stretch 4". Wanting a guy to hit a wide open mid range jumpshot is not the same as wanting a stretch 4. Unless you think a guy with Udonis Haslem like range is a stretch 4 :confused:

What I do see is a player who despite parsing data as much as possible his overall TS% (which is a measure of OVERALL efficiency and that's why I used it) has never reached the league average in efficiency and is actually worse then last year. It doesn't matter if his doing real well in in any one situation if he can't for whatever reason get into those situations to make a dent in a larger scale: this could be his team ignoring him, defenses not letting him get into post position, his own discomfort, or other players being better then him in those scoring situations. In addition, you get into problems with using isolated positive situations that don't expand because defenses don't really do anything special to counter Tristan (i.e. that's a huge assumption or should I say bullshit that defenses treat Kevin Love posting up the same as Tristan posting up).
 

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