Tristan Thompson

[CosmoKramer]

Wait, were the Cavs a better defensive team with AB on the court?

A lower Defensive Rating is better, it measures the opponent's scoring.

 

[EdMonix11]

A lower Defensive Rating is better, it measures the opponent's scoring.

So 109-110, would that mean that your description of Bennett's defense above is an exaggeration then?

 

[CosmoKramer]

So 109-110, would that mean that your description of Bennett's defense above is an exaggeration then?

Damn Ed, do you understand what Defensive Rating is? It measures the opponent's scoring per 100 possessions, it's a team stat. I was debating a point another poster made about AB being better than Tristan last year, which is just preposterous and not backed up by any stats or the eye test. The only thing you could possibly try to point to is AB's higher scoring numbers (14.4-13.4) per 36 minutes, but I've already gone into showing he needed many more shots and was much less efficient than Tristan was. In almost every other area Tristan was the more productive player.

The team stats were brought up to show the Cavs didn't perform better with AB on the court even during the uptick in his production in his last 25 games, as compared to the team playing extremely well when Tristan was on the court. If we want to talk about how terrible AB is defensively I'd bring up his opponent PER (2nd worst on team behind Sergey) or his points scored per possession (2nd worst on team behind Hawes).

 

[KingDelonte13]

The last 25 games or so Bennett played he was already better than Thompson is.

that's just blatantly false. I agree AB has a higher ceiling but let's not get carried away. He had some moments/flashes but to say he was better than TT his last 25 games? I'll be overjoyed if AB can consistently do what TT does night in and night out. We have yet to see that, but i really hope we do this upcoming season.

 

[Triumph36]

TT's frame is actually rather unimpressive. Check out Bennett's frame. That's a guy who could weigh in at a dead-solid 260 in time. TT's size is fine where it is right now (good, but not great), but he really can't afford to put more weight on. He has shown that he gets a lot less athletic when he puts on weight. Bennett has that body where he can be bigger and faster than most power forwards. He'll be a great mismatch at that position. I don't think it's a stretch to think that Bennett will be better next season than TT has ever been. We can't afford to keep TT at any rate. He will be gone before the season starts, I suspect.

Bennett does need a lot of maturing to do, but our time to make big moves is this off-season. We need to make TT someone else's resigning issue and not our own. That's why he won't be here past this off-season. Bennett will fill in fine, I'm sure.

i've already completely bought in to the prospect of moving thompson. at this point it'll be a huge letdown if he's still around come training camp.

though i do wonder about....

Let's put it this way... What does TT bring to the table? Nothing special or hard to find (energy, a big body, decent rebounding, hustle). You can find that almost anywhere, I mean for the money he wants it's just not worth extending him. I hope we just trade him this summer and get something basically out of nothing. Tristan is a great guy but he's just not going to be worth the money he gets. Sure, every team needs a guy like TT (hustle, energy off the bench) but we could find someone just as valuable for much cheaper.

this.

i completely agree with just about all of it. but then the point is - okay, so what are they actually going to get for him? he isn't some sort of hidden gem waiting to be unleashed; teams know what they are getting. how much are they really going to give up in a trade for a player like that especially when an extension is coming very shortly after? the same problems he had here will exist wherever else; he's still not a starting pf but rather just an energy and hustle type player off the bench. except now, he's also looking at a brand new contract.

 

[Derek]

Here are Bennett's stats for the last 20 games, which is when he rejoined the rotation and started playing better.

Last 20 games of the season for Bennett:

16.9 MPG
7.0 PPG
4.2 RPG
.451 FG%
.360 3P%
.644 FT%
.517 TS%
+1 plus/minus (Cavs were outscored by 64 in these 20 games)

Per 36:

15.0 PTS
8.9 REB (2.7 OFF, 6.2 DEF)
1.0 3PTM
1.1 AST
1.0 STL

After seeing that, I don't don't know why it's crazy to be optimistic about what he can do next year. Tristan has been ok, but nothing special, and shouldn't we have high expectations for a guy entering his second season looking to get regular, extended minutes for the first time?

 

[AuxiliaryPie]

I want no part in paying TT, great guy but nothin special on the court

 

[mAo_mAo]

You can throw all the stats you want in favor of TT but you can not convince me that TT is a threat both in offense and defense. He just is a body made to hustle like a Reggie Evans or a Junkyard Dog Williams minus athleticism.

 

[Triumph36]

Here are Bennett's stats for the last 20 games, which is when he rejoined the rotation and started playing better.



After seeing that, I don't don't know why it's crazy to be optimistic about what he can do next year. Tristan has been ok, but nothing special, and shouldn't we have high expectations for a guy entering his second season looking to get regular, extended minutes for the first time?

what's strange is how optimistic some people were for thompson going into his second, then third, seasons. at first it was "oh, second year, he's gonna make the jump!" then when that did not go so well it turned into "oh, third year and he's switching hands, NOW he's gonna make the jump!"

it's too bad bennett doesn't get the benefit of the doubt like thompson did early on. of course it's in large part due to the stages of the rebuild when they entered the picture, but the bottom line is that thompson isn't a starting pf on a good (at worst) team so it's time to look elsewhere. does that mean bennett is a surefire pf that will play a major role in leading the cavs to a title? nope. but he's displayed potential and given the alternative, we just need to hope those flashes were legit and he'll be able to go somewhere with consistent playing time and opportunities. doing this whole pf-platoon nonsense isn't going to get the team anywhere; they need to commit one way or the other and thompson absolutely already had his chance.

edit: 51.7% ts% in those 20 games is still pretty horrific tho

 

[Pioneer10]

I like Bennett as a prospect and am perfectly fine moving Thompson (in fact I'd support it) but Bennett is still just a prospect. The last 20 games is a small sample size and for all the flack TT gets he was never looked close to as bad as Bennett has. In fact, speaking of small sample sizes, remember when AV went down last year and TT suddenly looked like a younger more athletic version of him?

Based on his larger body of work though I feel we have a pretty good idea of what Thompson is and IMO he just doesn't have that high of a ceiling and he does not fit well with a team built around Irving and Waiters. I am in no way willing to give him Taj Gibson like money.

Bennett, on the other hand, has much more potential particularly on offense then TT but it's based on flashes. I'm willing to roll the dice with him (risk/reward seems to favor Bennett particularly considering the fit with the team) but let's face it's really not based on stats.

 

[Cashius X]

How would that bet possibly be determined? The subject of the better player is pretty subjective, even now we differ on who is better between Tristan and Derrick Williams. Should we take durability into consideration? AB missed more games in his lone rookie season (30) than Tristan's missed his entire three year career (5). I've long believed a player maintaining good health and adversely his availability is a valuable skill, you can't help the team while you're in street clothes.

I wouldn't argue AB would score more points in the same minutes, just that he'd give those points right back with subpar defense. For all the talk about his amazing defensive potential with all his size and length I've yet to see that manifest itself in positive ways defensively. He's never even been a mediocre defender in his 2 years in major basketball, can we slow the brakes on how great he can be on that end? I'd settle for mediocre next year, but that's pretty unrealistic. I'd be ecstatic if he could move his feet quick enough to stay in front of washed-up 36-year-olds.

You want to base it on PER? Best alternative I could think of. Tristan posted a PER of 16.1 his second season, I'll bet you $20 AB doesn't top that next year.

We should also add on Derrick Williams, who you keep pushing as a better player than TT as well, to bump it up to $40 in two separate bets.

Damn you love to type :chuckles:

I'll take you up on that bet though. TT actually had a PER of 14.96 for last season. Assuming Bennett gets around 30 mpg, like TT did last year, I think AB will put up better stats and post a higher PER. I'd put $20 on that.

Also with Derrick Williams, there isn't anyway we can do a bet with him. If he somehow finds the right situation for him and gets 30 mpg then yeah, I'd put money up. But no way am I betting on a guy who routinely plays less than 20 mpg. I still think he's better than TT by being more skilled but he's never really gotten the chance to showcase his talent. He's always buried behind veterans or all-star caliber players.

 

[daytripper]

In today's NBA PF's that can't stretch the floor or protect the rim are not very valuable. There's a place for TT as a rebounder off the bench for some team. Bennett at least has the potential as a floor stretcher so for that reason alone I would put my eggs in that basket.

 

[Tornicade]

I see Bennett being used off the Bench as a 2nd unit scorer as well as spending time at the three and the 4. if waiters can play 25% of his time at the three so can bennett.

I think we will have a better idea on the thompson situation in July when he signs his extension. The all star break or the end of the season would be a better time to pull the trigger on Thompson than this offseason.unless of course the Cavs get an oppurtunity at a first class two way play at Center or forward. I m just not seeing that happening yet.

 

[mcfly]

I see Bennett being used off the Bench as a 2nd unit scorer as well as spending time at the three and the 4. if waiters can play 25% of his time at the three so can bennett.

I do not really follow the logic here. Maybe if Bennett learns how to maximize his length/strength on the defensive end, but how long would that take?

 

[Dylan Windler's Mom]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Cavs will move Tristan Thompson this summer according to a source and could combine him with Anderson Varejao &amp; picks.</p>&mdash; Probasketballdraft (@Probballdraft) <a href="https://twitter.com/Probballdraft/statuses/468111512951746561">May 18, 2014</a></blockquote>
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