Tristan Thompson

[teamballer]

They shouldn't have to, and I agree with all your points, but if all it took was the olive branch 3-5 million dollars over 5 years to end this whole saga, I think it would be worth it long-term to the Cavs in terms of their future relationship and negotiations with Rich Paul and Termini, and in terms of their current business relationship with Thompson, and it would hopefully expedite getting him into camp/practice/onto the court. There's also still a chance that TT gets 5/80 and continues to improve on both ends like he has every year and eventually starts outplaying that salary when factoring in the huge cap boom.

I'm just saying, that little extra push really could lead to a lot of positive things and would be worth it in the end.



Again, I agree, but at the end of the day, we need to find a way to end this hold-out without him sitting out games. We are knocking on the door of a title. Logically, you are correct on all counts. But at the end of the day we're all humans, as is our owner, front office, Tristan and his representatives. It's not my money to spend and Gilbert has already done more than any other owner would be willing to do...

but we need to find a way to get this done, and if Dan decides that he's willing to spend a little extra money to extend a slight olive branch to make this all go away, I can't fault him for it, and I would support him by going out and enjoying a weekend at the Horseshoe.

If it weren't for the tax implications, I could get on board with what you are saying, but asking Gilbert to shell out an extra $20M or so (including tax) as an olive branch is too much, in my opinion. More importantly, though, it would set a really bad precedent that would bite the Cavs in the ass when it's time to negotiate new contracts for Mozgov, JR, Delly, and other role players that might do well in the playoffs. It sends a message that if we don't have the capspace to replace you, we will pay you anything, including the max or near max, even if your market value is nowhere near that. Rewarding TT's and Rich Paul's blackmail would also undoubtedly piss off players who negotiated in good faith and got fair contracts, and encourage them to employ the same blackmail tactics in the future.

So, while I generally agree with your approach that small concessions are worth making in order to build relationships and have happy players on the roster, in this case there are too many possible negative consequences, and whatever the Cavs gain in terms of keeping Tristan and Rich Paul happy would be overshadowed by what they lose in tax penalties, pissed off players, and future inflated contracts which would further increase the tax penalties.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

If it weren't for the tax implications, I could get on board with what you are saying, but asking Gilbert to shell out an extra $20M or so (including tax) as an olive branch is too much, in my opinion. More importantly, though, it would set a really bad precedent that would bite the Cavs in the ass when it's time to negotiate new contracts for Mozgov, JR, Delly, and other role players that might do well in the playoffs. It sends a message that if we don't have the capspace to replace you, we will pay you anything, including the max or near max, even if your market value is nowhere near that. Rewarding TT's and Rich Paul's blackmail would also undoubtedly piss off players who negotiated in good faith and got fair contracts, and encourage them to employ the same blackmail tactics in the future.

So, while I generally agree with your approach that small concessions are worth making in order to build relationships and have happy players on the roster, in this case there are too many possible negative consequences, and whatever the Cavs gain in terms of keeping Tristan and Rich Paul happy would be overshadowed by what they lose in tax penalties, pissed off players, and future inflated contracts which would further increase the tax penalties.

I think Mozgov, J.R., and Dellavedova's negotiatons are going to be wildly different though, so I can't be too worried about precedent we may set for them.

Mozgov will be paid good money, but if he wants a large sum of money he probably won't get the years. He's going to be 30 and while he will be a lightly used 30 year old, he's still a 30 year old big-man. The Cap will rise, we will only be one year away from being able to shed Andy's salary in a year where the cap will again increase substantially. The biggest tax bills Gilbert will incur are going to probably be this year and next year, but these are also the kost important and formative years of our title window, and I just can't see Gilbert not giving the team every realistic chance to have a roster that can win the title. Part of the entire reason LeBron returned to Cleveland was because he was angry at Miami for not being willing to sacrifice some tax dollars to maximize a competitive roster. While Gilberft has already gone above and beyond, LeBron is basically playing year-to-year and Gilbert refusing to re-sign a key cog to a championship squad (talking Mozgov here, not TT), would be something that I just don't see happening.

We have LeBron at the height of his powers for probably 3-5 more years. Probably closer to 3-4, and then it'll just be LeBron who's declining but still really really good for another 3-4 years and that's where Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving will have to play at the peak of their respective powers, but the focus right now has got to be on maximizing our chances at a championship over the next 3 seasons.

Smith is also on the wrong side of 30, has a bad league-wide reputation, and seems to be willing to take less to play with LBJ for a championship. I'm sure if he has a really good year this year and avoids getting suspended, he will command a higher dollar figure next year, but I think it will be something the Cavaliers will be happy to pay. I think Dellavedova is probably somebody who may have to be sacrificed if he indeed is able to find someone elsewhere to pay him a couple extra million dollars a year, but I just think that the Cavs will be able to get by without Dellavedova, especially since Mo seems to have a few good years of ball left in him and is willing to play at an extreme discount.

Also, it is prudent to remember that we have Kevin Love and Kyire Irving locked in longterm on contracts that are already currently essentially making them underpaid, in 1 year they will be highly underpaid, and in 2 years they will be unbelievably underpaid for their respective talent level and contributions to winning.

If there was ever a year where it is okay to over-pay for a guy like Tristan Thompson, it is this year. Gilbert will have to eat some serious tax dollars, but he'sworth like 5 billion, the Cavaliers are worth hundreds of millions more than what he paid for the team, NBA teams in general are selling for huge dollars. The Hawks went for what, $800 million?

With Andy only having one more guaranteed season on his deal after this season, with the cap exploding to 98M, 110M, and beyond, and with Love, and Irving (and hopefully TT) locked up on deals from a 60-65 million dollar cap, I am of the opinion that the only issue with Tristan's deal currently is primarily #1 the tax implications for this season and #2 the potential tax implications for next season. Other than that, I think our long-term flexibility and financial outlook remains relatively decent for a team that will be almost certainly be championship contenders for the next 3-4 years and most likely at least be very good for another 3-4 years after that.


At this point, can we just sign Tristan to 5/$60M and launder him $34 million dollars in BitCoin so he gets the ful max money adn Dan Gilbert saves probably $40+ million dollars in luxury tax?

 

[Paul]

I think Mozgov, J.R., and Dellavedova's negotiatons are going to be wildly different though, so I can't be too worried about precedent we may set for them.

Mozgov will be paid good money, but if he wants a large sum of money he probably won't get the years. He's going to be 30 and while he will be a lightly used 30 year old, he's still a 30 year old big-man. The Cap will rise, we will only be one year away from being able to shed Andy's salary in a year where the cap will again increase substantially. The biggest tax bills Gilbert will incur are going to probably be this year and next year, but these are also the kost important and formative years of our title window, and I just can't see Gilbert not giving the team every realistic chance to have a roster that can win the title. Part of the entire reason LeBron returned to Cleveland was because he was angry at Miami for not being willing to sacrifice some tax dollars to maximize a competitive roster. While Gilberft has already gone above and beyond, LeBron is basically playing year-to-year and Gilbert refusing to re-sign a key cog to a championship squad (talking Mozgov here, not TT), would be something that I just don't see happening.

We have LeBron at the height of his powers for probably 3-5 more years. Probably closer to 3-4, and then it'll just be LeBron who's declining but still really really good for another 3-4 years and that's where Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving will have to play at the peak of their respective powers, but the focus right now has got to be on maximizing our chances at a championship over the next 3 seasons.

Smith is also on the wrong side of 30, has a bad league-wide reputation, and seems to be willing to take less to play with LBJ for a championship. I'm sure if he has a really good year this year and avoids getting suspended, he will command a higher dollar figure next year, but I think it will be something the Cavaliers will be happy to pay. I think Dellavedova is probably somebody who may have to be sacrificed if he indeed is able to find someone elsewhere to pay him a couple extra million dollars a year, but I just think that the Cavs will be able to get by without Dellavedova, especially since Mo seems to have a few good years of ball left in him and is willing to play at an extreme discount.

Also, it is prudent to remember that we have Kevin Love and Kyire Irving locked in longterm on contracts that are already currently essentially making them underpaid, in 1 year they will be highly underpaid, and in 2 years they will be unbelievably underpaid for their respective talent level and contributions to winning.

If there was ever a year where it is okay to over-pay for a guy like Tristan Thompson, it is this year. Gilbert will have to eat some serious tax dollars, but he'sworth like 5 billion, the Cavaliers are worth hundreds of millions more than what he paid for the team, NBA teams in general are selling for huge dollars. The Hawks went for what, $800 million?

With Andy only having one more guaranteed season on his deal after this season, with the cap exploding to 98M, 110M, and beyond, and with Love, and Irving (and hopefully TT) locked up on deals from a 60-65 million dollar cap, I am of the opinion that the only issue with Tristan's deal currently is primarily #1 the tax implications for this season and #2 the potential tax implications for next season. Other than that, I think our long-term flexibility and financial outlook remains relatively decent for a team that will be almost certainly be championship contenders for the next 3-4 years and most likely at least be very good for another 3-4 years after that.


At this point, can we just sign Tristan to 5/$60M and launder him $34 million dollars in BitCoin so he gets the ful max money adn Dan Gilbert saves probably $40+ million dollars in luxury tax?

Regarding Delly being expendable, he may end up being the odd man out or one of the odd men out if we do pay TT and Moz the big contracts. I would wonder what would happen to our perimeter defense, though, if Shumpert is out with an injury, which seems to happen basically every season. Hopefully the Cavs will have at least a few million per year that they can offer Delly to try and persuade him to stay. It should be interesting to see what his market value will be in July.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Regarding Delly being expendable, he may end up being the odd man out or one of the odd men out if we do pay TT and Moz the big contracts. I would wonder what would happen to our perimeter defense, though, if Shumpert is out with an injury, which seems to happen basically every season. Hopefully the Cavs will have at least a few million per year that they can offer Delly to try and persuade him to stay. It should be interesting to see what his market value will be in July.

Yeah. It's a nice luxury to have a guy who seems to actually be able to do a really good job against a lot of the leagues top-level point guards, because in today's league, with todays rules, good point guards are essentially unguard-able and they require an entire team effort and usually a very talented defensive big-man who is quick enough to hedge to stop penetration, get back to the rim, and either big or athletic enough to still contest shots at the rim(This reason right here is a huge reason why Thimpson is so valuable. He can come out on the P&R, recover, and still make a difference at the rim)

But Dellavedova has a serious knack for defending PG's. Case Study 1: Steph Curry(MVP, can shoot from anywhere, only needs a little space, very controlled dribble, deceptively quick, great array of shots off the dribble going to the rim)/ Delly stuck to him through screeens, stayed perfectly in Curry's space to the point where he was close enough to keep Curry out of his own comfort zone while also being able to move his feet enough to not get blown by to the rim. This forced Curry into a lot of bad shots(we saw the early %'s before Delly cramped up) and also forced him into a lot of passes that he hadn't been making much all year. Lots of drive& kick to Iguodala, Green, and Barnes which is just something you live with against those guys(and for 3-4 games, it really really worked because Steph neverf got going). By game 5, the Warriors were literally forming a diagonal line of players starting at the 3 point line and moving slightly inward and they were basically setting three screens on Delly and having Curry run all the way around all of them to the other side of the court to finally get the Cavs a little off balance and the other guys moving their feet besides digging in. It was a masterful performance from an undrafted Australian kid.

Case Study 2: Jeff Teague( All-Star, decent jump shooter but not great, not great range either, super quick to the rim, elite first step, good finisher, good passer in traffic).

Teague could not get around Dellavedova at all. Delly played him so smart. Gave him all the jumpers he wanted. Teague could not consistently hurt us with those. He sagged of of him at a perfect distance and when Teague did finally get into the paint Dellavedova would then get up on him and apply the pressure and physicality which made it much harder for Teague to force in those lay-ups, to make the right passes to the right guys in the right spots because Delly used his arms and hands to hound him the entire time. And there were even a few times where Teague was so befuddled that he tried to post Delly up, and I think he missed every time. I just kept laughing when that happened. It was hilarious. Delly really was key to taking Atlanta out of their "Spurs-lite" mode and basically turning them into a mediocre drive-and-kick team with a point guard who cannot carry a team by himself. It not only disrupted Teague but it disrupted their entire offensive flow and hurt all of their shooting.

Delly has even reportedly been really good against Kyrie in practice, and Irving has to be one of the top 3 hardest guys to defend in the league because he's got an elite first step, he can finish 50 different ways at the rim, he's an elite shooter from 3, and from mid-range, both off the pick and off the dribble, he's got go-to dribble moves like Kobe at 22 years old, he's got a really good post-up game for a point guard, (reverse spin lay it in with the left hand, turn around jumper over the left shoulder...) And he can also dribble equally well with both hands, and finish with both hands, and he also is skilled with a hand in his face, has every spin move and crossover in the book, and he's not a midget, he;s got good size, good height, and is a good athlete. (God damnit Kyrie is good).

A high-level PG defender is a very nice asset to have. Sure we always have Shumpert and Kyrie continues to show improvement especially in big games against big names when he takes it personally, but it's also nice to have Shumpert tracking guys like Korver and Klay(he shut them both down) or bodying up guys like Wade and Durant, because Shumpert on opposing star PG's shouldn't be a game-plan all the time, it should just be one of multiple looks you throw to try and keep them off their game the best you can.

I'm sure we'll at least try and retain him, but he hasn't made much money yet in his career and I don't see him taking any kind of discount, but if we win a title, maybe Gilbert just gets wasted and signs everyone to 12 year extensions, luxury tax be damned.

 

[Tendulkar]

The question is, why should the Cavs volunteer to pay additional tens of millions in tax just so Rich Paul can save face. Tristan's options are 1. Get Philly or Portland to offer you the max (not happening, and I doubt he would want to play for either of them); 2. Sit out the entire season, watch his market value drop, and become a RFA again next season; or 3. Sign whatever contract the Cavs offer him.

I really doubt any of the first two options are real options for Tristan. He can hold out and play games, but eventually he will have to sign whatever contract the Cavs offer him because any other option is far worse for him. If it weren't for the LBJ connection, the Cavs could've offered him a 5/45 contract at this point, which is not much less than he would be able to get on the open market, and he would have to take it because sitting out a season would drop his value even further. Thanks to LeBron, the Cavs will likely keep whatever they previously offered him on the table. He should thank his lucky stars and take that offer. No need for Gilbert to give him a reward for trying to blackmail the franchise.

Spot on. TT is lot over rated around here. This team is a contender because of Lbj, Kylie and love. If they are healthy cavs will win. If not it will be like last season. Like Lowes said he might increase title chances by 1% ( not like 10% people around here believe). Hell any of his replacement might bridge the gap as well.
On a limited role JR is huge like we have seen last season. We have other role players in Shump, Moz, Mo and Delly. TT won't tip the scales for cavs. He was the opposite of JR last season. On a limited role, his presence was hugely unknown. When he got minutes and love went down, he can't keep the title chances live. I mean he was good, but not good enough to win.
Who cares about the regular season especially until Christmas. When everyone is back , cavs have a deep roster. TT be damned. Cavs should play hard ball and offer him very less now. What else can TT do. If not for Lebron factor, he will be eating shit by now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Green Lantern]

Windy said on Lowe's podcast these exact sentiments but the truth of the matter is he's a double edge sword on defense. He can't block shots and he is hit or miss defensively against the leagues better powerfoward. Sometimes it seems like he gives them a hard time and at others it's very obvious they are lightyears ahead of where he needs to be as a player.

The worst part about this is that this might prolong itself into December or January. Windy said on the podcast that Tristans camp feels he is needed for a championship run which sounds more like a blackmail than trying to contribute to a historic championship. They are trying to bend the Cavs over while at the same time turning down a lucrative deal that would put Tristan Thompson on a team where his brand and image as a player will be shaped for the rest of his career. He's laying on a gold mine in Cleveland. Take the 80 million. It's that simple.

I don't like it. It's greedy and a huge distraction not just for the players but for the fans as well. We're suppose to enjoy this run but our guy is holding out on us.

Uh..where's that list of the 3 players the Cavs were interested in?

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

At this point, can we just sign Tristan to 5/$60M and launder him $34 million dollars in BitCoin so he gets the ful max money adn Dan Gilbert saves probably $40+ million dollars in luxury tax?

Unfortunately, that won't work, and the tax implications of helping Paul "save -face" are extreme. Dan is supposed to pay nearly $24m just so Rich Paul can "save face"?

There are two ways around that -the nice way, and the not nice way. The nice way is to add an incentive to the contract. Maybe something unlikely to be reached, but at least it is something that Paul can spin as TT betting on himself.

The not nice way is to point out to Paul that his ethical obligation is to his client, not to his own reputation, and that holding his client out until the Cavs make Paul "look good" is not professional. You can't make that play unless/until Paul drops the "you need to give me something" card, but he's inexperienced enough that he might do it.

That kind of play often leads to a blow up, but it does result in some deals getting closed if it is played at the right time.

 

[flop]

Make Rich Paul look good? Rich Paul can EAT A DICK!

Tristian too. I hope this whole thing blows up in his face. Ungrateful shithead.

 

[The Human Q-Tip]

It should probably be pointed out that the NBA does not make contracts public, so putting in a weak incentive or two would muddy things up enough that Paul could perhaps claim victory without it really costing Dan anything.

 

[Captain S]

No, No, NO. Neither Paul nor Thompson deserve a "face saving" $5 million bump. That's just absurd. The offer should already be less than the reported $80 for hardballing us so long and the Cavs should be looking for other suitors. Unlike yourself who apparently can wait until opening game until you're "really annoyed", many of us are apoplectic at this point.

$85 million for Tristan Thompson is a sin.

What about 81 million?

- Rich Paul

 

[Captain S]

Yeah. It's a nice luxury to have a guy who seems to actually be able to do a really good job against a lot of the leagues top-level point guards, because in today's league, with todays rules, good point guards are essentially unguard-able and they require an entire team effort and usually a very talented defensive big-man who is quick enough to hedge to stop penetration, get back to the rim, and either big or athletic enough to still contest shots at the rim(This reason right here is a huge reason why Thimpson is so valuable. He can come out on the P&R, recover, and still make a difference at the rim)

But Dellavedova has a serious knack for defending PG's. Case Study 1: Steph Curry(MVP, can shoot from anywhere, only needs a little space, very controlled dribble, deceptively quick, great array of shots off the dribble going to the rim)/ Delly stuck to him through screeens, stayed perfectly in Curry's space to the point where he was close enough to keep Curry out of his own comfort zone while also being able to move his feet enough to not get blown by to the rim. This forced Curry into a lot of bad shots(we saw the early %'s before Delly cramped up) and also forced him into a lot of passes that he hadn't been making much all year. Lots of drive& kick to Iguodala, Green, and Barnes which is just something you live with against those guys(and for 3-4 games, it really really worked because Steph neverf got going). By game 5, the Warriors were literally forming a diagonal line of players starting at the 3 point line and moving slightly inward and they were basically setting three screens on Delly and having Curry run all the way around all of them to the other side of the court to finally get the Cavs a little off balance and the other guys moving their feet besides digging in. It was a masterful performance from an undrafted Australian kid.

Case Study 2: Jeff Teague( All-Star, decent jump shooter but not great, not great range either, super quick to the rim, elite first step, good finisher, good passer in traffic).

Teague could not get around Dellavedova at all. Delly played him so smart. Gave him all the jumpers he wanted. Teague could not consistently hurt us with those. He sagged of of him at a perfect distance and when Teague did finally get into the paint Dellavedova would then get up on him and apply the pressure and physicality which made it much harder for Teague to force in those lay-ups, to make the right passes to the right guys in the right spots because Delly used his arms and hands to hound him the entire time. And there were even a few times where Teague was so befuddled that he tried to post Delly up, and I think he missed every time. I just kept laughing when that happened. It was hilarious. Delly really was key to taking Atlanta out of their "Spurs-lite" mode and basically turning them into a mediocre drive-and-kick team with a point guard who cannot carry a team by himself. It not only disrupted Teague but it disrupted their entire offensive flow and hurt all of their shooting.

Delly has even reportedly been really good against Kyrie in practice, and Irving has to be one of the top 3 hardest guys to defend in the league because he's got an elite first step, he can finish 50 different ways at the rim, he's an elite shooter from 3, and from mid-range, both off the pick and off the dribble, he's got go-to dribble moves like Kobe at 22 years old, he's got a really good post-up game for a point guard, (reverse spin lay it in with the left hand, turn around jumper over the left shoulder...) And he can also dribble equally well with both hands, and finish with both hands, and he also is skilled with a hand in his face, has every spin move and crossover in the book, and he's not a midget, he;s got good size, good height, and is a good athlete. (God damnit Kyrie is good).

A high-level PG defender is a very nice asset to have. Sure we always have Shumpert and Kyrie continues to show improvement especially in big games against big names when he takes it personally, but it's also nice to have Shumpert tracking guys like Korver and Klay(he shut them both down) or bodying up guys like Wade and Durant, because Shumpert on opposing star PG's shouldn't be a game-plan all the time, it should just be one of multiple looks you throw to try and keep them off their game the best you can.

I'm sure we'll at least try and retain him, but he hasn't made much money yet in his career and I don't see him taking any kind of discount, but if we win a title, maybe Gilbert just gets wasted and signs everyone to 12 year extensions, luxury tax be damned.

Not that I disagree with Delly's merits as a defender, but im sure half of the difference was also curry remembering oh yeah im not a guy who only shoots, i can handle the ball and then he was a lot more effective because he could attack delly on the dribble or at least the threat was enough that he got more open shots

 

[I'mWithDan]

I really like TT but I would hope the FO is exploring PF options with the TPE.

I started looking around rosters, starting with Charlotte (post MKG injury) and I did see one name who is probably expendable: PF/C Spencer Hawes

He had a down year with LAC but is still a young (27) quality stretch player. Can play the 4 or 5 and would pair well with Moz / Andy. He's also a decent defender. I'm sure there are other names out there as well but he was an interesting name, at least to me.

He also has a team friendly contract for someone who can contribute (2 years, $11.3 Million with a player option in 2017-18). Not sure how much Charlotte likes him with having Hansbrough, Zeller and Kaminsky (who will play stretch 4 minutes as well). They seem to have a log jam there and may be motivated to move him with MKG done for the year.

 

[NasstyNate]

I really don't see him as a double-edged sword defensively. He had a lot of really good games where he really bothered a lot of good post-up guys in man-on-man coverage. He absolutely denied Millsap anything the entire series. He's really good in the pick and roll, really good at switching, and his shotblocking seems to be at least solid when he's paired with Mozgov and given decent minutes(his block rate increased decently in the playoffs IIRC). He's gotten bigger and stronger every season. He looks more like the explosive guy we heard about when we drafted him versus what he showed as a rookie and sophmore. His body really matured well and he is very durable. His only defensive weakness was basically continuing to play that "on a string" defense throughout the entire 24 second and make multiple correct rotations, but he isn't bad and he has improved every year which is expected in young players. We became a defensive force in the playoffs and Tristan was a very integral part of that after we lost Love.

Tristan is a good defender for about four seconds of the shot clock in one specific scenario (PnR), and in the post against a big creating with his back to the basket (which the league is going away from). Many people see his PnR defense on guards and come to the conclusion that he is a good defender. The problem with that is there are twenty other seconds on the shot clock. You talk about his only defensive weakness, but that weakness happens to be the vast majority of team defensive play.

Where do you stand on defensive metrics like DRtg, DBPM and DRPM? They reveal the imbalance I'm talking about where people emphasize PnR defense and discount everything else. You can be a lock down defensive switcher on guards (he's not), but if you are unable to block shots from the strong or weak side, usually late or straight up absent on rotations, not big enough to use size to deter penetration, generally lost within a defensive system, and a poor defensive rebounder, then you are going to be a bad overall defender. The numbers show over and over again that his PnR defense does not outweigh his extreme deficiencies in every other area.

We need a plus defender as our third big, as we have plenty of offense everywhere else. I'll straight up say that this team would be better with anyone from a large group of PF/C who are in the league because they can play defense and rebound, and that doesn't even take into account the incredible tax savings. Tristan is that bad at overall defensive impact. I thought that's what we were getting with Perkins but was completely wrong. Tristan's holdout can potentially be a blessing in disguise because it might force us to get a real defensive third big. Say goodbye to our fourth quarter leads collapsing.

 

[JMoneyYourHoney]

Tristan's holdout can potentially be a blessing in disguise because it might force us to get a real defensive third big.

I agree that we need another backup PF (we wouldn't need one if Andy's health wasn't such a question mark), but no hope in that guy being Kaun?

 

[NasstyNate]

I agree that we need another backup PF (we wouldn't need one if Andy's health wasn't such a question mark), but no hope in that guy being Kaun?

I haven't followed Kaun's career. He doesn't seem like a guy with much lateral quickness who can play PF and defend at an above average level. Thoughts?