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Upgrade at PF or SG? which do we need more?

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liquidfire

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So which position, PF or SG, do you think we need a upgrade at?

this is hard for me, but i think we need a clear upgrade at PF in the worst way...

wally for wilkens, wilcox?
 
well we can't tell yet but i have a feeling our bigs isn't going to cut it.....i would have to go with a PF
 
We need a PF more than a SG, but there are way more quality SG's out there that MAY BECOME AVAILABLE. Here is some players I see maybe becoming available....

The players with an (R) next to them, I see actually being a realistic option the Cavs may pursue and will be very likely available.

Power Forwards

- David Lee (R) (would be great)
- Z. Randolph (R) (risky, could kill us or make us legit championship contenders)
- C. Wilcox (R) (solid addition, but will it put us over the top?)
- A. Harrington (R) (too small, could be solid here though)
- C. Villanueva (doubt we want him)
- Nene and K-Mart (definitely won't want either)
- H. Warrick (too small)
- N. Collison (solid additon, but won't put us over the top)
- C. Frye (kinda pointless)
- S. Marion (SF/PF tweener, probably a bad fit, Miami won't trade him for just expirings)
- Odom (see Marion)

Out of those players, the only players I see that could make a big difference are Lee, Randolph, Marion, and Odom. We're not getting Odom or Marion if you ask me. Most people definitely don't want Zach, so that leaves us with very little options for a PF that may be available.

Shooting Guards

- M. Miller (R) (I would love him here, great team player, great shooter, nice size)
- G. Wallace (R) (We all know the rumors, IMO he is overrated, can't shoot, but i'd take him)
- V. Carter (R) (Tried it once, why not again? Bad contract, Will he be rejuvenated here?)
- S. Jackson (R) (If he doesn't get an extension, he will cause problems and be gone)
- J. Crawford (R) (streaky, can explode at any time, volume shooter, bad option IMO)
- J. Salmons (R) (Kings don't need him, he is solid, won't put us over the top)
- J. Johnson (If Hawks tank, it is possible, he has a 2010 expiring though so it is less likely)
- J. Richardson (Bobcats supposedly love him, but they'll suck so who knows? Id love him)
- M. Redd (could be traded, but doubtful to the Cavs since him and Mo didn't work out)
- M. Dunleavy (another mediocre team, he could be o.k. for us)
- M. Webster or T. Outlaw (they're loaded at the SG/SF position, one will be available)

There are a ton of Sg's out there that we can actually have a chance to go after. We need a PF more, but there are just way better players available at SG.


My Top 10 Wish List from these players:
1. Joe Johnson
2. Mike Miller
3. Mike Redd
4. David Lee
5. Shawn Marion
6. Gerald Wallace
7. Vince Carter
8. Stephen Jackson
9. Lamar Odom
10. Al Harrington or Mike Dunleavy
 
We need a tall PF because that way if Av gets injured we have a decent backup C to Z.
 
if only we had a chance at al jefferson or amare stoudemire:rolleyes:
 
We need a PF/C. I'm hoping that JJ will develop into a starter. If that happens, I'd like flexibility with whoever else we brought in to have the most talented starting front court possible.
 
Completely agree with you Akronite we do need a shooting guard though which is unfortunate because i'd like to find us a trade that gets us both but it is so hard because of the salaries.
 
Bossman, whats up man!!!

The going consenus is the Cavs need a PF, which is true. But the reality is that the Cavs need a SG in the worst way. The Cavs didn't go into camp with question marks about their bigs like they did their SG position. The cavs knew Z and Big Ben would start, with heavy minutes off the bench going to AV. But it wasn't until the last few days before the opener was it known who would be the SG so what does that tell you?

Why I say the Cavs need a SG over a PF?

Because the cavs can get rebounds from their bigs, and provide interior defense. So they are not as bad on the frontline as people think. Not to mention that Lebron is apart of this front line. But the issue at SG is so obvious that it's not even funny. Delonte West is not a SG and never will be. He is a PG. He's also a prime example why you cannot play player's out of position at this level. If West man the SG position, then every other team who play the Cavs will have the match-up edge at that position. There is no way West will guard the likes of Wade, Iggy, Kobe, Rip, Redd, Richardson, Jamal Crawford, Manu, and the list goes on and on. This is a match-up problem for the Cavs and it showed in a big way last night. Wally is terrible and he CANNOT PLAY THE 2 or the 4!!!! Again, another reason why you cannot play guys out of position. Wally got abused against Leon Powe. It's amazing that Mike Brown actually played him at the 4. Sasha is a d-league player. The Cavs current roster will get virtually no offense, nor defense from the SG position. Far as their bigs, they can atleast rebound and defend the position. If the Cavs did get a big, like a randolph, then the problem at SG still remains.
 
Nice post,

I am thinking along the same lines. Unless there is someone out there that i can't see, there is no value at the PF spot in a trade currently. AV is playing great, MB talks about Lebron at the 4 (even though he then went out a put wally there:confused: ) JJ and darnell are poth PF. I think if you put a legit threat in the minutes of Pavs and West at SG, your get much more potent. Gerald wilken would be my personal choice, assuming Joe Johnson is untouchable, as he can guard an score in a number of ways. He seems like a larry brown kind of player though.

Hell i'd take vince at the right price.
 
The going consenus is the Cavs need a PF, which is true. But the reality is that the Cavs need a SG in the worst way. The Cavs didn't go into camp with question marks about their bigs like they did their SG position. The cavs knew Z and Big Ben would start, with heavy minutes off the bench going to AV. But it wasn't until the last few days before the opener was it known who would be the SG so what does that tell you?

Exactly. West really shouldn't be our starting 2, and while he's a good combo guard, we need a stronger, taller, and more productive shooting guard than West. And as GimmieMo said, there are more quality SGs available with greater probability of acquisition than there are PFs.

Why I say the Cavs need a SG over a PF?

Because the cavs can get rebounds from their bigs, and provide interior defense. So they are not as bad on the frontline as people think. Not to mention that Lebron is apart of this front line. But the issue at SG is so obvious that it's not even funny. Delonte West is not a SG and never will be. He is a PG. He's also a prime example why you cannot play player's out of position at this level. If West man the SG position, then every other team who play the Cavs will have the match-up edge at that position. There is no way West will guard the likes of Wade, Iggy, Kobe, Rip, Redd, Richardson, Jamal Crawford, Manu, and the list goes on and on. This is a match-up problem for the Cavs and it showed in a big way last night. Wally is terrible and he CANNOT PLAY THE 2 or the 4!!!! Again, another reason why you cannot play guys out of position. Wally got abused against Leon Powe. It's amazing that Mike Brown actually played him at the 4. Sasha is a d-league player. The Cavs current roster will get virtually no offense, nor defense from the SG position. Far as their bigs, they can atleast rebound and defend the position. If the Cavs did get a big, like a randolph, then the problem at SG still remains.

Exactly..
 
What we really need is TIME.

We need time to let our current roster work itself out and reveal where our real weaknesses are once the season has progressed.

(1) If Pavs returns to his level of play the year we went to the finals, then all of a sudden we don't need a SG as much. His defense/athleticism are good enough for him to start, if he tightens up his offense and takes better care of the ball he should get the job.

(2) Our bigs didn't look as weak as everyone thought. Z looked fine -- a little rusty, but fine. Wallace is Wallace. AV looks awesome. And Hickson will get his chance eventually. Wright...well -- hopefully IF we continue to use Wright he will look like he did his first couple posessions...and not the way he looked the rest of the time.

(3) Our second unit is a big ??? right now.

If we make any moves that reduce our current depth, just to land one player at PF/SG -- I think we're shaking up a roster that has potential to be REALLY good if given time to gel and play well together. We're just now starting to test small-ball at full speed with our starters, and we have a lot of new options that we're trying out. Any moves too early will keep us from knowing the potential of our current squad, and we have guys who can fill our so-called "holes" if given the opportunity.
 
make sense REAL TALK...^^^ to be honest we really have no time b/c lebron,mo & the team are trying to win as much games a possible from yesterday even though we lost

but i am worried about both positions....we need a big who can post,is young & is tough(cough cough randolph) but at the same time we could do with a shooter like redd....but i seen today that we are targeting bosh besides lebron in the 2010 FA so those 3yr+ contracts aren't doing good for us...so it is hard year for ferry
 
What we really need is TIME.

While you may be right, I think time is the one thing you simply can't get more of. Time is working against us, not for us. What I mean by that is if it takes several dozen games to realize what our strengths and weaknesses are, when we should've known that last year, or the year before for that matter, we may be missing opportunities that otherwise would have been self-evident.

We need time to let our current roster work itself out and reveal where our real weaknesses are once the season has progressed.

Perhaps with Mo/Bron, but West, Pavs, and Wally are known commodities. For instance:

(1) If Pavs returns to his level of play the year we went to the finals, then all of a sudden we don't need a SG as much.

I've seen absolutely no evidence of that happening, first off. Secondly, we got swept in the Finals and many thought the simple fact of us being in the Finals was a fluke. We can't rest our hopes on LeBron James having another double overtime God-like performance 4 out of 7 games in a series... It's just not going to happen. Nobody on our team is a quality SG. We need a SG, period.

His defense/athleticism are good enough for him to start, if he tightens up his offense and takes better care of the ball he should get the job.

Start in Europe, perhaps; but not when you claim to be #1 contenders for the NBA championship. C'mon. Pavs as the starting SG in the Finals against the Lakers.. Hell, against the Celtics... Too much pressure on Bron and Mo to make up the difference. This is what happened last year and the year before and the year before and....

(2) Our bigs didn't look as weak as everyone thought. Z looked fine -- a little rusty, but fine. Wallace is Wallace. AV looks awesome. And Hickson will get his chance eventually.

You're right about Z and Wallace, but think about what you're saying: "Wallace is Wallce?" What does that mean? That Wallace = non-threat, do not guard me under any circumstances because I can't jump the remaining foot to dunk this ball? That Wallace?

AV=zone defense... Meaning we're left with a front-court for 30 minutes a game that can be left unguarded. That's a serious problem, especially combined with the lack of a meaningful threat at the 2 considering Brown has resigned himself (so far, at least) to turning Boobie into a point-guard.

And Hickson? He's really a non-factor this year. He's just not ready for prime-time minutes, at least according to Mike Brown - and that's fine, he's only 19 years old. In a few years, he'll develop into a great asset but not this year. We're fooling ourselves to think otherwise.

Wright...well -- hopefully IF we continue to use Wright he will look like he did his first couple posessions...and not the way he looked the rest of the time.

(3) Our second unit is a big ??? right now.

So is our first if you ask me...

If we make any moves that reduce our current depth, just to land one player at PF/SG -- I think we're shaking up a roster that has potential to be REALLY good if given time to gel and play well together. We're just now starting to test small-ball at full speed with our starters, and we have a lot of new options that we're trying out. Any moves too early will keep us from knowing the potential of our current squad, and we have guys who can fill our so-called "holes" if given the opportunity.

I think we know the potential of many of the components of our current roster as I've illustrated above. The Cavaliers biggest priority is spreading the opposing teams defense to allow our primary asset, LeBron James, lanes to drive the ball. We also need a consistent threat in the low-post with a decent ability to get boards and who can dunk more than once a game. We NEED trades, THIS year, and perhaps the next. Our team, as a whole, is not championship quality as it's currently constructed; especially considering the extremely vital role LeBron James plays in our offense. We need a more rounded offense that isn't so predictable. The Celtics proved this point last night by stopping LeBron with basic zone defense and guarding Mo Williams. Everyone else was pretty much left alone. Doc's coaching last night embarrassed the Cavaliers' lesser players, particularly Wally Sczerbiak, and that's not Wally's fault btw - it's Mike Brown's for assuming the Celtics wouldn't take advantage of the obvious mismatch. That's bad coaching on his part, and is systemic of a larger problem in our lack of quality players, even in our starting lineup.

Unless we can get past the optimism bias, we can't appreciate the disparity in the quality of players between the Celtics and the Cavaliers. There's a big difference. We must close that gap to assure ourselves victory this year. The best way, imho, of assessing the Cavs' strength is to ask ourselves hypothetically, if we remove LeBron James from the equation, what are we left with? Take Pierce and James out of the game - could the Cavs beat the Celtics?

That's the problem that needs to be fixed.
 
What we really need is TIME.

We need time to let our current roster work itself out and reveal where our real weaknesses are once the season has progressed.

(1) If Pavs returns to his level of play the year we went to the finals, then all of a sudden we don't need a SG as much. His defense/athleticism are good enough for him to start, if he tightens up his offense and takes better care of the ball he should get the job.

(2) Our bigs didn't look as weak as everyone thought. Z looked fine -- a little rusty, but fine. Wallace is Wallace. AV looks awesome. And Hickson will get his chance eventually. Wright...well -- hopefully IF we continue to use Wright he will look like he did his first couple posessions...and not the way he looked the rest of the time.

(3) Our second unit is a big ??? right now.

If we make any moves that reduce our current depth, just to land one player at PF/SG -- I think we're shaking up a roster that has potential to be REALLY good if given time to gel and play well together. We're just now starting to test small-ball at full speed with our starters, and we have a lot of new options that we're trying out. Any moves too early will keep us from knowing the potential of our current squad, and we have guys who can fill our so-called "holes" if given the opportunity.

Our second unit is deep, really deep. If we traded just Wally, and Pavs to get a shooting guard then we would be completely fine. Also this would not ruin our depth, because this would give the starter minutes of Sasha to the new SG, and the backup minutes to DW. Wally should not play for this team ever again after last night.
 

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