Upgrade at PF or SG? which do we need more?

[Real_Talk]

Those guys would not be lateral moves, they are alot more consistant and heady players than pavs and they can guard taller wing players unlike west. That being said, if its carter vs geting dark and a raja Bell or something like that, i would think twice about just carter. Here is the thing though, with our assets the way they are, carter is a real possibility, but a marginal upgrade at sg isnt. We make the trade if available, hope we resign AV (do everything in our power to get a deal done, even over pay at this point)...hope jj developes, and see what we can get for Ben next year. We might not be as deep in the frontcourt as we want, but what team is. I think carter might be the best we are going to get, and should welcome the possibiliies with open arms, I was just refering in a perfect world. I am worried if we do get him not having enough balls to make him, lebron and mo happy. If carter isnt happy, he doesnt play well or try hard. That said, championship runs have a way of healing all wounds and its a chance imo worth taking.

I understand what you are saying. But this is how I see it; Anything that doesn't allow us to BEAT A TEAM LIKE BOSTON IS A LATERAL MOVE. Yes, Raja is a better SG than Wally or Sasha. But does Raja allow us to overtake Boston? I don't think so. We can take Boston to 7 games again, but if it doesn't put us over the hump, then it's a lateral move because the results will still be the same. I think alot of people consider a "good move" is if we can get something better than what we already have. Unfortunately, that's a bad way of looking at it because if it doesn't allow you to beat the best team(s), then what's the point?


Far as not enough balls? I wouldn't worry about that. If other teams can have 3 superstars and succeed, then why not us? Houston got 3 star players. L.A. got a sh*t load of star type players. Boston got 3 legit stars. The Spurs got 3 stars quality players.
It's call "sacrifice".

 

[Mdog1]

I understand what you are saying. But this is how I see it; Anything that doesn't allow us to BEAT A TEAM LIKE BOSTON IS A LATERAL MOVE. Yes, Raja is a better SG than Wally or Sasha. But does Raja allow us to overtake Boston? I don't think so. We can take Boston to 7 games again, but if it doesn't put us over the hump, then it's a lateral move because the results will still be the same. I think alot of people consider a "good move" is if we can get something better than what we already have. Unfortunately, that's a bad way of looking at it because if it doesn't allow you to beat the best team(s), then what's the point?


Far as not enough balls? I wouldn't worry about that. If other teams can have 3 superstars and succeed, then why not us? Houston got 3 star players. L.A. got a sh*t load of star type players. Boston got 3 legit stars. The Spurs got 3 stars quality players.
It's call "sacrifice".

Well we can have three next year and then we will be set, or this year if we use Snow. trade his 7mil for Darko (Darko isn't a star don't take it that way.), then trade Wally for a SG. Then next year if we decide not to use Snow we trade BW for a SG/C/PF depending on what we can get. I don't care about 2010 anymore because as Lee has said that is fools gold.

 

[Real_Talk]

What's with the obsession with Darko? He's another lateral move!!!! I want star quality players. Redd, VC, Al Jefferson, etc...The elite teams our stacked. Go look at L.A.!!! Go look at Houston! We are not beating those teams unless we get some serious talent, period! We can get the Darko's, the Mike Miller's, the Stephen Jackson's, and that's all dandy. We will pound the average team all day long, and make teams like the Bobcats look stupid like we did. But unless we get some legitimate talent in the likes of the above mention players, then we are not beating Boston, we are not beating L.A., we are not beating Houston, and probably won't beat the Spurs either. Those teams have alot of star power and that's why they are the elite. We are not getting to where they are with guys like Darko, or a Mike Dunleavy, so it buffles me as to why guys like you have a big interest in guys like Darko, al harrington, Raja Bell and the likes.

 

[Mdog1]

What's with the obsession with Darko? He's another lateral move!!!! I want star quality players. Redd, VC, Al Jefferson, etc...The elite teams our stacked. Go look at L.A.!!! Go look at Houston! We are not beating those teams unless we get some serious talent, period! We can get the Darko's, the Mike Miller's, the Stephen Jackson's, and that's all dandy. We will pound the average team all day long, and make teams like the Bobcats look stupid like we did. But unless we get some legitimate talent in the likes of the above mention players, then we are not beating Boston, we are not beating L.A., we are not beating Houston, and probably won't beat the Spurs either. Those teams have alot of star power and that's why they are the elite. We are not getting to where they are with guys like Darko, or a Mike Dunleavy, so it buffles me as to why guys like you have a big interest in guys like Darko, al harrington, Raja Bell and the likes.

We don't need a star to win. This team is good, just needs anothe lock down defender to win it all.

We need a tall PF/C that way we can at times play like the Spurs with Duncan and Robinson. I just watched the '99 finals game 5 today and they looked amazing together. If we could get another 7 footer it would create rebounds on the offensive end and close the hoop on D.

Now Z or the guy (Darko) we would bring in would bring in wouldn't be better than the other two, but if we could do it we would be a force. Darko fits this nicely because he can be had for Snow and then we still have Wally to deal for a SG.

That is my thinking behind Darko he has the one thing that can't be taught to Duncan, or Robinson. And that is height. He and Z have 5-6 inches on Duncan Robinson. That is a huge advantage and don't underestimate the power of Big Ben Wallace's teachings.

 

[Lee]

What's with the obsession with Darko? He's another lateral move!!!! I want star quality players. Redd, VC, Al Jefferson, etc...The elite teams our stacked. Go look at L.A.!!! Go look at Houston! We are not beating those teams unless we get some serious talent, period! We can get the Darko's, the Mike Miller's, the Stephen Jackson's, and that's all dandy. We will pound the average team all day long, and make teams like the Bobcats look stupid like we did. But unless we get some legitimate talent in the likes of the above mention players, then we are not beating Boston, we are not beating L.A., we are not beating Houston, and probably won't beat the Spurs either. Those teams have alot of star power and that's why they are the elite. We are not getting to where they are with guys like Darko, or a Mike Dunleavy, so it buffles me as to why guys like you have a big interest in guys like Darko, al harrington, Raja Bell and the likes.

How is Darko a lateral move? Is he better right now than Lorenzen wright or even JJ? Do we have a young 7 footer on the team i dont know about? AV is a free agent, I hope we lock him up, but that by no means is a gureuntee. Outside of him, we have JJ. Thats it. If we get Darko, we have a third. Is he a star? No, but he is solid. He can defend, block shots, rebound and hit an open jumper. He isnt as smart a player as Z, but he is more athletic and 9 years younger. We could use our birds rights to resign him and lock him up long term in 2 years. How many Bosh, Dwight howards, etc. actualy trade teams. LA paid near max money for Bynum, and his numbers are just slightly better than Darko's and he isnt much younger. I think its time for a reality check. Brand is the only big man who moved last year. Philly had most of their talent on rookie contracts. Bron is no longer on a rookie contract. Free agent money just wont be their. The summer of hughes was our shot on the free agent market. We sung and missed. But guess what, we still have more atbats. Now we can use those contracts to get talent for the long term. if we can get an upgrade at sg, even a john salmons, we would be favorites. I think this team as presently constructed could win it all. So do alot of the so called experts. We need youth, and one more player. Thats it. Darko is youth. A taller sg who can defend and throw in 10 points would be the other.

Look at it this way. we have bron who is good for 25, Z is good for 15, ben is good for 5, and Mo is good for 15. That is 60, if we get a sg capable of scoring 10, thats 70+ from the starters. 25-30 from the bench and we score 100 every night. That bench would have west, gibson, Av, Hickson, Darko, etc.... Now all we need is the defenders to hold the opposition to 90pts. Its a smple concept. You need to score more than the opponent. 2 things help you to do that. Scoring more, and defending the opponent form scoring more. Picking up a player with average offensive game but can defend is by no means a lateral movement. We have enough scoring, although adding one more option wouldnt be bad. But the most important thing we need to do is improve our defense.

 

[Real_Talk]

We don't need a star to win. This team is good, just needs anothe lock down defender to win it all.

We need a tall PF/C that way we can at times play like the Spurs with Duncan and Robinson. I just watched the '99 finals game 5 today and they looked amazing together. If we could get another 7 footer it would create rebounds on the offensive end and close the hoop on D.

Now Z or the guy (Darko) we would bring in would bring in wouldn't be better than the other two, but if we could do it we would be a force. Darko fits this nicely because he can be had for Snow and then we still have Wally to deal for a SG.

That is my thinking behind Darko he has the one thing that can't be taught to Duncan, or Robinson. And that is height. He and Z have 5-6 inches on Duncan Robinson. That is a huge advantage and don't underestimate the power of Big Ben Wallace's teachings.

We don't need another star quality player to win? lol So how do you suppose we beat boston and L.A. with these marginal players? U must think this is a video game or something. You are trying to compare Darko and Z to the tandem of Duncan and Robinson. Dude, no disrespect, but are you on drugs? Darko/Z will NEVER BE DUNCAN AND ROBINSON. IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!!! I'll even hate to see Darko and Z on the court at the same time, that would look hideous. Darko is garbage. His career avg is 5ppg and 4 reb a game!! That's terrible for a player with his size to put up such futile numbers. AV put up better numbers than him and he has no OFFENSIVE GAME!!! Yet you think he is the answer? INSANE!!!! Size means nothing on this level. U have to have skills, passion, fundamentals, and a whole lot of heart!!! DArko doesn't have those things. If he did, a player with his SIZE would get alot more than 5ppg, and 4 reb.

 

[Real_Talk]

How is Darko a lateral move? Is he better right now than Lorenzen wright or even JJ? Do we have a young 7 footer on the team i dont know about? AV is a free agent, I hope we lock him up, but that by no means is a gureuntee. Outside of him, we have JJ. Thats it. If we get Darko, we have a third. Is he a star? No, but he is solid. He can defend, block shots, rebound and hit an open jumper. He isnt as smart a player as Z, but he is more athletic and 9 years younger. We could use our birds rights to resign him and lock him up long term in 2 years. How many Bosh, Dwight howards, etc. actualy trade teams. LA paid near max money for Bynum, and his numbers are just slightly better than Darko's and he isnt much younger. I think its time for a reality check. Brand is the only big man who moved last year. Philly had most of their talent on rookie contracts. Bron is no longer on a rookie contract. Free agent money just wont be their. The summer of hughes was our shot on the free agent market. We sung and missed. But guess what, we still have more atbats. Now we can use those contracts to get talent for the long term. if we can get an upgrade at sg, even a john salmons, we would be favorites. I think this team as presently constructed could win it all. So do alot of the so called experts. We need youth, and one more player. Thats it. Darko is youth. A taller sg who can defend and throw in 10 points would be the other.

Look at it this way. we have bron who is good for 25, Z is good for 15, ben is good for 5, and Mo is good for 15. That is 60, if we get a sg capable of scoring 10, thats 70+ from the starters. 25-30 from the bench and we score 100 every night. That bench would have west, gibson, Av, Hickson, Darko, etc.... Now all we need is the defenders to hold the opposition to 90pts. Its a smple concept. You need to score more than the opponent. 2 things help you to do that. Scoring more, and defending the opponent form scoring more. Picking up a player with average offensive game but can defend is by no means a lateral movement. We have enough scoring, although adding one more option wouldnt be bad. But the most important thing we need to do is improve our defense.

First, How long u been watching basketball dude? (Please answer that). Second, are u trying to imply that Bynum isn't much better than Darko with your reference to stats/numbers? Dude, BYNUM IS MUCH BETTER THAN DARKO!!! Darko is a scrub. Bynum is a star quality big man who was having an all-star year before his injury. AV puts up better numbers than DArko. Darko was a bad pick in the draft and that's the bottom line. he never will be worth the #2 pick overall, if he was, then Detriot would have kept him. He's garbage!!!! John Salmons makes us favorties? lol...hahahahahaaha...to funny. I think you need to go look at the Lakers roster and tell me how in the f**k would we be favorites with John Salmons when his career avg is 7ppg.....

If we cannot get player(s) that makes us better than Boston, Spurs, Rockets, and Lakers, then it's A LATERAL MOVE!!!!!

 

[Hydroponic3385]

You make it sound like we got pounded by Boston last year. We lost to them in a very close game 7 at their place. We did that while only having Delonte/Ben/Joe/Wally on our team for a couple months, so that was even without that great of team chemistry. So add an offseason together + MO WILLIAMS (hello, are you even counting him?) and I'd say we're already in better shape to take out Boston or the Western conference representative. Add someone else like Darko/Mike Miller/Jackson and you better bet we can take those teams out. Is it a 100% guarantee? No, and it NEVER will be for ANY team.

 

[Mdog1]

We don't need another star quality player to win? lol So how do you suppose we beat boston and L.A. with these marginal players? U must think this is a video game or something. You are trying to compare Darko and Z to the tandem of Duncan and Robinson. Dude, no disrespect, but are you on drugs? Darko/Z will NEVER BE DUNCAN AND ROBINSON. IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!!! I'll even hate to see Darko and Z on the court at the same time, that would look hideous. Darko is garbage. His career avg is 5ppg and 4 reb a game!! That's terrible for a player with his size to put up such futile numbers. AV put up better numbers than him and he has no OFFENSIVE GAME!!! Yet you think he is the answer? INSANE!!!! Size means nothing on this level. U have to have skills, passion, fundamentals, and a whole lot of heart!!! DArko doesn't have those things. If he did, a player with his SIZE would get alot more than 5ppg, and 4 reb.

I didn't mean they were the same production wise you should really read my post. We need a backup center for when Z retires any way so he would be a good one to groom. Also he is good defensively, and his offensive production is not the point of getting him.

First, How long u been watching basketball dude? (Please answer that). Second, are u trying to imply that Bynum isn't much better than Darko with your reference to stats/numbers? Dude, BYNUM IS MUCH BETTER THAN DARKO!!! Darko is a scrub. Bynum is a star quality big man who was having an all-star year before his injury. AV puts up better numbers than DArko. Darko was a bad pick in the draft and that's the bottom line. he never will be worth the #2 pick overall, if he was, then Detriot would have kept him. He's garbage!!!! John Salmons makes us favorties? lol...hahahahahaaha...to funny. I think you need to go look at the Lakers roster and tell me how in the f**k would we be favorites with John Salmons when his career avg is 7ppg.....

If we cannot get player(s) that makes us better than Boston, Spurs, Rockets, and Lakers, then it's A LATERAL MOVE!!!!!

You are missing the point. People are already picking us to win it all so if we do get an improvement over the current player then we will be a favourite. Salmons and Darko both fit this mold and unless you tell me someone better than stop complaining. I swear to god if you say Mike Redd well i'm not sure what I will do but it involves a paper clip, a rocket, and some uranium.

 

[Real_Talk]

You make it sound like we got pounded by Boston last year. We lost to them in a very close game 7 at their place. We did that while only having Delonte/Ben/Joe/Wally on our team for a couple months, so that was even without that great of team chemistry. So add an offseason together + MO WILLIAMS (hello, are you even counting him?) and I'd say we're already in better shape to take out Boston or the Western conference representative. Add someone else like Darko/Mike Miller/Jackson and you better bet we can take those teams out. Is it a 100% guarantee? No, and it NEVER will be for ANY team.

lol...Did you see the game the other night at Boston? We got Mo' Willams, true. But did you notice the result was strangely the same before we got Mo'? And KG and Allen did NOT have strong games. Boston still won because we they are still the better team. Darko is a lesser player than AV so I'm not sure how you think he's going to make that much of a difference. He avg. 5ppg and 4 rebs. Pretty lame for someone his size. Miller and Jackson? We are a little better, but not better enough where it puts us over the top. Miller is not a good defender, he'll get destroyed by the top tier shooting guards. If we got lucky and did get to the finals, I'm sure Kobe(Lakers), or T-mac(would be waiting). And I'll hate to see Mike Miller guarding Kobe or T-Mac. That would not be pretty at all.

 

[Lee]

First, How long u been watching basketball dude? (Please answer that). Second, are u trying to imply that Bynum isn't much better than Darko with your reference to stats/numbers? Dude, BYNUM IS MUCH BETTER THAN DARKO!!! Darko is a scrub. Bynum is a star quality big man who was having an all-star year before his injury. AV puts up better numbers than DArko. Darko was a bad pick in the draft and that's the bottom line. he never will be worth the #2 pick overall, if he was, then Detriot would have kept him. He's garbage!!!! John Salmons makes us favorties? lol...hahahahahaaha...to funny. I think you need to go look at the Lakers roster and tell me how in the f**k would we be favorites with John Salmons when his career avg is 7ppg.....

If we cannot get player(s) that makes us better than Boston, Spurs, Rockets, and Lakers, then it's A LATERAL MOVE!!!!!

First off, saying the numbers are simular and you are undervaluing one while over valuing the other. Bynum will be great in this leage, but since when has 13 points, 10 boards and 2 blocks gotten anyone to an allstar game. Z put up better numbers than him last year, or atleast as good as, with 14 points, 9.5 boards, 1.75 blocks, and he didnt make any all star game...although I know one plays in the east the other in the west. But still, where the hell are you getting your facts from. Do you even check stats before you type?

Second, Darko Played 6 less minutes a game than AV, scored more points, blocked 3 times as many shots, had about the same nuber of steals, and had about the same rebounding rate per a minute as AV. How did AV have better numbers? Do you opporate your stats in Bazzaro World? Does Darko have as many intangebles as AV? No, but saying he had better numbers is just a flat out wrong. Please check the stats before opening your mouth.

Third, I have been watching basketball for nearly 30 years.(I had a world B Free poster in my room growing up, lol) I am sorry the concept of the colelctive bargaining agreement, free agency, salary cap, max contracts, and players worth escape you, but you are missing the boat when it comes to reality. Darko is not great, but if you have an opportunity to add a young big with some upside, you do. They just dont come on the market that often. SG is a much easier position to fill.

 

[liquidfire]

We don't need another star quality player to win? lol So how do you suppose we beat boston and L.A. with these marginal players? U must think this is a video game or something. You are trying to compare Darko and Z to the tandem of Duncan and Robinson. Dude, no disrespect, but are you on drugs? Darko/Z will NEVER BE DUNCAN AND ROBINSON. IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!!! I'll even hate to see Darko and Z on the court at the same time, that would look hideous. Darko is garbage. His career avg is 5ppg and 4 reb a game!! That's terrible for a player with his size to put up such futile numbers. AV put up better numbers than him and he has no OFFENSIVE GAME!!! Yet you think he is the answer? INSANE!!!! Size means nothing on this level. U have to have skills, passion, fundamentals, and a whole lot of heart!!! DArko doesn't have those things. If he did, a player with his SIZE would get alot more than 5ppg, and 4 reb.

YEAH, lets bring back duncan/ robinson into prime form, hell lets get stockton and MJ too! we can finally be a dynasty!

seriously, snap back into reality.

 

[Real_Talk]

You are missing the point. People are already picking us to win it all so if we do get an improvement over the current player then we will be a favourite. Salmons and Darko both fit this mold and unless you tell me someone better than stop complaining. I swear to god if you say Mike Redd well i'm not sure what I will do but it involves a paper clip, a rocket, and some uranium.

Who are picking the Cavs to win it all? (or did u make that up?) As is, we are not the favorites. Boston is still the favorites in the East. And the Lakers is probably the favorites to win it all with Bynum back. L.A. would cause us to many match-up problems. Can u imagine Delonte West, Sasha, Wally, or Gibson guarding Kobe? Every postion L.A. gets the nod accept SF, and PG. And Fisher is a crafty smart veteran so our edge at PG isn't that big to be honest. But they have the better coaching staff, and a much better bench. And Odom coming off the bench would terrorize our 2nd team.

 

[Lee]

Who are picking the Cavs to win it all? (or did u make that up?) As is, we are not the favorites. Boston is still the favorites in the East. And the Lakers is probably the favorites to win it all with Bynum back. L.A. would cause us to many match-up problems. Can u imagine Delonte West, Sasha, Wally, or Gibson guarding Kobe? Every postion L.A. gets the nod accept SF, and PG. And Fisher is a crafty smart veteran so our edge at PG isn't that big to be honest. But they have the better coaching staff, and a much better bench. And Odom coming off the bench would terrorize our 2nd team.

Several of the espn guys and SI guys have picked us. More than 50% of the writers picked Lebron to win the mvp. Almost everyone has Celtics-cavs east, with about 40% having us going to the finals. The most popular pick to win it all is Lakers, followed by celts to repeat, followed by Cavs...But several are picking us.

Actually, Sasha in the past has done an decent job guarding Kobe, its why i want him back in the starting Lineup, but in reality guarding kobe is like guarding LBJ, no one does it succesfully. I agree the have the advantage at 3 of the 5 starting potions, but if you say fischer is a crafty vet, I say Z is a crafty vet and closer to bynum than fisher is to Mo, infact that could be called a draw at this point. Our bench is much deeper than their bench. They might the best player coming off the bench, but we have a deeper bench. Our bench shoots better and defends better. Gibson and AV anchor a very good bench for us. If start pavs, that would then give us West on the bench too. Hickson is a promising rookie on the becnh, and wally is a former all star who still can shoot, just doesnt have the all around game to get regular minutes. Think about that, before wally came to cleveland he was averaging in double figures as a 6th man, here, we are so deep he has a hard time getting meaningful minutes in our rotation.

 

[Mdog1]

Who are picking the Cavs to win it all? (or did u make that up?) As is, we are not the favorites. Boston is still the favorites in the East. And the Lakers is probably the favorites to win it all with Bynum back. L.A. would cause us to many match-up problems. Can u imagine Delonte West, Sasha, Wally, or Gibson guarding Kobe? Every postion L.A. gets the nod accept SF, and PG. And Fisher is a crafty smart veteran so our edge at PG isn't that big to be honest. But they have the better coaching staff, and a much better bench. And Odom coming off the bench would terrorize our 2nd team.

We'll we are picked by a lot of people to win the East this year, and I can almost guarantee a win over LAL if we play them. I don't care about their supperior starters we still have the best player in the world who isn't a choke artist like Kobe. And our bench is way better than theirs. Half our bench could start for us.

PS. Boston is the favourite to win the most games, but we are favourites to win the ECF.