Wedge a Dead Man Managing

[DougHeil]

He is saying that your final record is what counts. Yes, how you start has an impact on that but the slow starts aren't what mattered to him, what mattered was not making the playoffs, not winning the title, etc. I think it makes no sense that folks disagree with this- so you don't care that the Cavs started off great last year but went home without a title? are we going to have sparkling memories of the Nov 08 Cavs, or of the disappointment in how 08 ended? All fans care about is how the season ends.

That's not what he always said however. He's talking about the regular season and never mentioned the playoffs. He says it's not how you start, but how you finish. I believe it's ALL those games..... first game, middle games, end games, ALL damn games, that determine if you go to the playoffs or not.

I guess well intended minds can look at the Wedge comments in different ways, but I'm going off what he actually said in June or July of THIS year. He was referring to his notion that his teams grind it out and that our bad start can be made up, and then said it's more important how we finish off the year. He said all of this even though we had NO CHANCE at that time of making the playoffs. It came off as an excuse for the slow start. He was saying slow starts are just not that important in the overall scheme of the year. Not true.

 

[macbdog]

Victor Martinez: Wedge isn't to blame for Tribe troubles

http://www.ohio.com/sports/63351942.html

By Sheldon Ocker
Beacon Journal sports writer

POSTED: 09:48 p.m. EDT, Oct 02, 2009

BOSTON: Victor Martinez didn't get his wish, but maybe he got something better: a trip to the playoffs and a chance to win the World Series.

If the Indians hadn't traded him to the Boston Red Sox July 31, his season would be ending on Sunday rather than continuing with the Division Series against the Los Angeles Angels next week.

''I thought I was going to stay in Cleveland,'' Martinez said Friday. ''I made it clear I would stay, but the owner [Larry and Paul Dolan] was thinking something different. It wasn't my fault. It wasn't Mark Shapiro's fault or Eric Wedge's fault. But the owner wanted to take a different route.''

Martinez was a big supporter of Wedge, who was fired as manager Wednesday but agreed to finish out the season.

''It was very sad what happened,'' Martinez said. ''What happened there was not his fault or the fault of the coaches, but it's easier to blame one guy.''

After Thursday night's game, Martinez had a long chat with Wedge in the visiting manager's office.

''Victor came in last night around the time we were getting ready to take off,'' Wedge said. ''Some of the coaches were still here. We must have talked for a couple of hours.''

As he went through his formative years in the majors, Martinez said he learned many things from Wedge.

''I have to thank Wedgie and coaches for me getting to be the player I am now,'' Martinez said. ''Wedgie got on me a lot, but that was only to make me better. Now I can appreciate what he did for me. He also made sure every player was ready to play a game, and that's big. Sometimes it's hard to hear the truth. But he would tell you the truth.''

Wedge doesn't allow even the smallest things to slide.

''I remember years ago, after a strikeout, I would throw the ball to third but not hard,'' Martinez said. ''Wedgie would tell me to throw it hard, to get used to making a real throw.''

Go ahead and check out the link for the rest of it.

Now, jus tlike the fans who want a fall guy, I can see why he has to then pick ownership to be upset about being dealt. It sucked to see him go and I am still in a state of mourning (although not enough to actually find myself rooting for the Sox). However, his eventual departure was kind of inevitable. He wasn't sticking at C with Santana coming up. He was kind of blocking LaPorta and/or Brantley by playing 1B. I miss the guy and it sucks to see him go but it was one of those things you knew was going to happen in the next 2 years anyway.

Of course, all that is besides the point- he is pretty effusiive in his praise of Wedge. He is no longer with the team so he doesn't need to toe a company lline. He seems to have really liked him. I have to wonder if Boston, which considers Farrell to be a 'manager in waiting' for Francona, may not decide to pick up Wedge then if Farrell ends up being the Tribe's or some other team's choice. Hmmm....

 

[DougHeil]

Re: Victor Martinez: Wedge isn't to blame for Tribe troubles

http://www.ohio.com/sports/63351942.html



Go ahead and check out the link for the rest of it.

Now, jus tlike the fans who want a fall guy, I can see why he has to then pick ownership to be upset about being dealt. It sucked to see him go and I am still in a state of mourning (although not enough to actually find myself rooting for the Sox). However, his eventual departure was kind of inevitable. He wasn't sticking at C with Santana coming up. He was kind of blocking LaPorta and/or Brantley by playing 1B. I miss the guy and it sucks to see him go but it was one of those things you knew was going to happen in the next 2 years anyway.

Of course, all that is besides the point- he is pretty effusiive in his praise of Wedge. He is no longer with the team so he doesn't need to toe a company lline. He seems to have really liked him. I have to wonder if Boston, which considers Farrell to be a 'manager in waiting' for Francona, may not decide to pick up Wedge then if Farrell ends up being the Tribe's or some other team's choice. Hmmm....

Good points. What Victor really doesn't touch on though is the fact Wedge is really his only history/source of what he knows in MLB. It's one thing to be able to teach and get on players for details, etc, but quite another to get those players to give 100% each game, including the very first game of each year. Victor talks about Wedge pluses, but you know darn well Victor also knows about the minuses with Wedge, but he isn't saying. You can't have one without the other, otherwise a manager would be a perfect manager.

I don't believe Wedge will be picked up by a team to simply coach. I'm thinking he will get calls "this month" for Manager, or at least by the end of this year.

 

[macbdog]

It is shortsighted to say that Victor has an inability to assess other people's impact on his life and career. Pretty strong overanalysis.

I don't think Victor's point was that Wedge is perfect- he was pointing out the difference Wedge made for him. Victor DOES have a frame of reference in his development, and that is his 10 year professional career. He played for different managers coming up through the minors who weren't Wedge. He played for different managers in the winter leagues. He played for his home country in the WBC. I think he has the proper backround to grasp who has helped him and who hasn't. He clearly identifies Wedge as someone who has benefited him greatly.

 

[Amherstcavsfan]

Re: Victor Martinez: Wedge isn't to blame for Tribe troubles

http://www.ohio.com/sports/63351942.html



Go ahead and check out the link for the rest of it.

Now, jus tlike the fans who want a fall guy, I can see why he has to then pick ownership to be upset about being dealt. It sucked to see him go and I am still in a state of mourning (although not enough to actually find myself rooting for the Sox). However, his eventual departure was kind of inevitable. He wasn't sticking at C with Santana coming up. He was kind of blocking LaPorta and/or Brantley by playing 1B. I miss the guy and it sucks to see him go but it was one of those things you knew was going to happen in the next 2 years anyway.

Of course, all that is besides the point- he is pretty effusiive in his praise of Wedge. He is no longer with the team so he doesn't need to toe a company lline. He seems to have really liked him. I have to wonder if Boston, which considers Farrell to be a 'manager in waiting' for Francona, may not decide to pick up Wedge then if Farrell ends up being the Tribe's or some other team's choice. Hmmm....

The problem was never Wedge developing young guys, it was maintaining development and getting young players to their peak. He also was quite stubborn about playing young players, as evidence with LaPorta when he first came up this year. Wedge also juggled the lineup like a clown and constantly made the wrong bullpen moves.

Wedge was an average manager with a talent team. He is good for rebuilding, but not for winning consistently. He'll get a job and he'll do some good and some bad, but for a mid market team, you need better than average from a manager.

 

[macbdog]

Each player is responsible for their own peformance. Once these guys get established, it is up to them to take this supposed 'next step,' if it is possible. It is mildly absurd to blame Fausto's struggles, Peralta's averageness, Garko's averageness, etc. on the coaching staff. I would love to know who has a 'next step' to take. Are we talking about Choo? Cabrera? Sizemore? Garko? Peralta? Gutierrez? Any of the soft-tossing lefties? Victor stated that Wedge continually pushed him and others to constantly re-evaluate and work to improve. I really don't know what more a manager is supposed to do; he can't take the ABs for the hitter. He can't be calling all their pitches for their whole career. The player has to be the one to go out there and perform.


Wedge is responsible for the whole of the product- did they win? No, they didn't the last two years, and he suffered the consequences. But individual players taking this 'next step' you talk of? That is on the player.

 

[macbdog]

Albert Belle gives his 2 cents on the Tribe's situation

Figured I would drop this in here....

Albert Belle calls in advice: don't trade your stars

by Paul Hoynes

First they lost. Then they traded everybody. Finally, they fired everybody.

So what else could be missing from this fine Indians season that ends today? What about a phone call from former Tribe slugger Albert Belle to tie all the loose ends together?

For the third time in the past two years, Belle punched my cellphone number from his home in Scottsdale, Ariz. As I walked down the dank visitor's tunnel at Fenway Park in Boston on Friday, I answered his call. There was no mistaking the voice on the other end of the line.

"Tell Larry Dolan I won't be interviewing for the manager's job," said one of the most feared and ill-tempered hitters in Indians history. "How can you manage when you've got no players?"

Manager Eric Wedge and his coaching staff were fired Wednesday by General Manager Mark Shapiro.

"This season isn't the manager's fault," Belle said. "They traded away all his players. You can't win when you trade two Cy Young winners in CC Sabathia and Cliff Lee. Dolan is getting what he paid for."

.....

"Every time I watch a game in Cleveland, there's nobody in the stands," Belle said. "I said, 'Damn, it's worse than the old place [Cleveland Municipal Stadium] where we played.'

....

Belle played eight years (1989-1996) for the Indians. He ranks second all-time in homers with 242 and slugging percentage at .580. In 1995, when the Indians reached the World Series for the first time in 41 years, he had one of the greatest seasons in club history.

Belle hit .317 and led the AL with 52 doubles, 50 homers, 126 RBI and a .690 slugging percentage. His OPS was 1.091.

He did not win the AL MVP award, mostly because of his sparkling personality and frequent suspensions.

It should be mentioned that I disliked Belle more than any player I've covered. He was a bully, uncooperative and a constant pain in the neck. I know the feeling was mutual.

I have no idea why he calls me, but Belle was and always will be entertaining.

"I might have to put a coaching staff of Kenny Lofton, Eddie Murray and Wayne Kirby together," Belle said. "Charles Nagy could be our pitching coach. Then I'd go to Dolan and apply for the job as manager.

"I could bring back all those guys. Maybe that would help."

Belle was laughing when he said that. He did not sound serious.

A bad left hip forced Belle to retire in 2000. If he had played a little longer, it would have been hard to keep him out of the Hall of Fame. Even now his numbers are elite -- .295, 389 doubles, 381 homers, 1,239 RBI, 974 runs, .396 on-base percentage and a .564 slugging percentage.

...

"Joe Girardi is going to probably win Manager of the Year. I could manage the Yankees from home. I'd just call in the lineup every day from the golf course."

Belle, 43, said he liked watching Prince Fielder and the Brewers perform a recent choreographed routine after a walkoff homer. Fielder jumped on the plate and all his teammates fell down. The rest of baseball did not approve.

"I would love to do that," said Belle. "We were the first team to start all that in Cleveland when we were hitting all those walkoff homers."

That was a long time ago for the Indians and Belle.

This just really cracked me up. I really hope Albert keeps this up, and Hoynes keeps us informed. I almost get the feeling that he really would like to get back into baseball but isn't finding any takers.

 

[Chris]

Great find man. Enjoyed the hell out of that read.

I hate Belle but man he's spot on here. I get chills just reading that.