Would you trade JJ for Randolph?

[Heej]

It's clearly Kobe Bryant, and you're not telling us anything new here. Kobe's been terribly inefficient all season long, if you're using him as a comparison for Monta Ellis' efficiency you know this discussion is going nowhere fast. At least Kobe's a capable passer and is able to impact the game on the defensive end. The same can't be said for Monta Ellis.

No sane person would want Monta Ellis on this team.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

Who is player A?

Player A is probably Kobe Bryant. However, that doesn't change the argument. The Lakers are much better with Kobe on the floor, the same is not true for the Warriors.


As far as Mo Williams' efficiency goes, his TS% was .566 the year before he came to Cleveland. He saw a small spike, for sure, but the 7% difference that exists between Monta and Mo at the moment would not be made up for in the slightest by any possible spike.

Listen, I like you. You're an enthusiastic poster with a lot of good ideas, but trust me on this one, statistically, you cannot defend Monta Ellis. If I have to, I will actually go and pull the numbers that pretty much take Monta Ellis' reputation as being great and beat it with a shovel until it dies, I don't really want to have to do that.... :chuckles:

 

[BA_CavsFan]

I think his style of play is even better suited because he can run the P&R, it's not a difficult concept to learn. Where JJ gives just the roll, AR can give you the roll and be just as efficient as JJ and he can pick and pop with his mid range.

The fact is you can't really say he wouldn't fit a style because he's never played in a style to begin with. When I watch him play I see a guy who moves off the ball with cuts and crashes the boards. He's one of the few guys on a team that plays no defense and is a ball hog offense who's willing to block some shots and offensive rebound. To me, that says a lot about a young player.

Until Randolph proves he can be a good pick-and-roll player, I still think JJ's the better fit. The pick-and-pop advantage definitely goes to Randolph, although finishers at the rim are something the Cavs sorely lack (besides JJ). Randolph is a good offensive rebounder/shot blocker but JJ has shown flashes of that too. I think ultimately if JJ puts in enough work and continues to be mentored by LBJ he can be just as good as Randolph, if not better.

 

[Mdog1]

Player A is probably Kobe Bryant. However, that doesn't change the argument. The Lakers are much better with Kobe on the floor, the same is not true for the Warriors.


As far as Mo Williams' efficiency goes, his TS% was .566 the year before he came to Cleveland. He saw a small spike, for sure, but the 7% difference that exists between Monta and Mo at the moment would not be made up for in the slightest by any possible spike.

Listen, I like you. You're an enthusiastic poster with a lot of good ideas, but trust me on this one, statistically, you cannot defend Monta Ellis. If I have to, I will actually go and pull the numbers that pretty much take Monta Ellis' reputation as being great and beat it with a shovel until it dies, I don't really want to have to do that.... :chuckles:

I need to confess that I would take the shovel that you would use and have it start at PG for us next season rather than Mo Williams. The guy is useless, he disappears in the playoffs offensively, and he couldn't defend a 4'5" girl with no arms.

Edit: And I never said that Monta is great, hell I don't even think that he is a top 20 player, but he is better than Mo Williams.

 

[InBoobieWeTrust]

I need to confess that I would take the shovel that you would use and have it start at PG for us next season rather than Mo Williams. The guy is useless, he disappears in the playoffs offensively, and he couldn't defend a 4'5" girl with no arms.

Edit: And I never said that Monta is great, hell I don't even think that he is a top 20 player, but he is better than Mo Williams.

He may be a better player, but he is not a better defender and he is not a better fit. Waste of assets and money.

 

[JayDub]

Until Randolph proves he can be a good pick-and-roll player, I still think JJ's the better fit. The pick-and-pop advantage definitely goes to Randolph, although finishers at the rim are something the Cavs sorely lack (besides JJ). Randolph is a good offensive rebounder/shot blocker but JJ has shown flashes of that too. I think ultimately if JJ puts in enough work and continues to be mentored by LBJ he can be just as good as Randolph, if not better.

I can just tell by watching him play that he can be an effective Pick and Roll player. It's hard to "prove" it when it's never run. Also, AR4 with mentoring/playing with LBJ would be a much better player than JJ in the long run, IMO. I dont think JJ is bad, I just don't think he could be as good as Randolph if they are in similar situations.

 

[camakazee]

I need to confess that I would take the shovel that you would use and have it start at PG for us next season rather than Mo Williams. The guy is useless, he disappears in the playoffs offensively, and he couldn't defend a 4'5" girl with no arms.

What is with the anti-Mo Williams sentiment that has run wild on this board?

I understand the guy has his faults and isn't as good in the playoffs, but for f**k's sake, have we forgotten about the past Cavs point guards? Mo has done a better job at "point guard" than anyone else in the LeBron era because he complements him nicely. I agree that if you can upgrade the point guard spot by trading Mo, you do it, but shit, some people want to ship his ass out for nothing.

2003-04 starter @ point guard: Ricky Davis (started season at pg before traded).

15.3 pts/5.0 asts/43.1% fg/35.4% 3p in 22 reg. season starts​

2004-05 starter @ point guard: Jeff McInnis.

13.7 pts/5.3 asts/42.1% fg/32.9% 3p in 69 reg. season starts​

2005-06 starter @ point guard: Eric Snow.

4.8 pts/4.2 asts/40.9% fg/10.0% 3p in 82 reg. season starts​

6.6 pts/2.8 asts/42.1% fg/0.0% 3p in 13 playoff games​

2006-07 starter @ point guard: Eric Snow.

5.1 pts/4.5 asts/42.3% fg/0.0% 3p in 45 reg. seasons starts​

1.7 pts/1.5 asts/31.6% fg/0.0% 3p in 19 playoff games​

2007-08 starter @ point guard: Daniel Gibson (started the season at pg).

12.6 pts/3.2 asts/47.8% fg/50.4% 3p in 26 reg. season starts​

Delonte West starter in playoffs.​

10.8 pts/4.2 asts/40.0% fg/42.9% 3p in 14 playoff games​

2008-09 starter @ point guard: Mo Williams.

17.8 pts/4.1 asts/46.7% fg/43.6% 3p in 81 reg. season starts​

16.3 pts/4.3 asts/40.8% fg/37.2% 3p in 14 playoff games​

2009-10 starter @ point guard: Mo Williams.

15.8 pts/5.3 asts/44.2% fg/42.9% 3p in 68 reg. season starts​

14.4 pts/5.4 asts/40.9% fg/32.7% 3p in 11 playoff games​

Man, I pray for the Cleveland point guard amnesia that some of you "anyone but Mo Williams!" fans are experiencing this offseason.

 

[BA_CavsFan]

What is with the anti-Mo Williams sentiment that has run wild on this board?

I understand the guy has his faults and isn't as good in the playoffs, but for f**k's sake, have we forgotten about the past Cavs point guards? Mo has done a better job at "point guard" than anyone else in the LeBron era because he complements him nicely. I agree that if you can upgrade the point guard spot by trading Mo, you do it, but shit, some people want to ship his ass out for nothing.

2003-04 starter @ point guard: Ricky Davis (started season at pg before traded).

15.3 pts/5.0 asts/43.1% fg/35.4% 3p in 22 reg. season starts​

2004-05 starter @ point guard: Jeff McInnis.

13.7 pts/5.3 asts/42.1% fg/32.9% 3p in 69 reg. season starts​

2005-06 starter @ point guard: Eric Snow.

4.8 pts/4.2 asts/40.9% fg/10.0% 3p in 82 reg. season starts​

6.6 pts/2.8 asts/42.1% fg/0.0% 3p in 13 playoff games​

2006-07 starter @ point guard: Eric Snow.

5.1 pts/4.5 asts/42.3% fg/0.0% 3p in 45 reg. seasons starts​

1.7 pts/1.5 asts/31.6% fg/0.0% 3p in 19 playoff games​

2007-08 starter @ point guard: Daniel Gibson (started the season at pg).

12.6 pts/3.2 asts/47.8% fg/50.4% 3p in 26 reg. season starts​

Delonte West starter in playoffs.​

10.8 pts/4.2 asts/40.0% fg/42.9% 3p in 14 playoff games​

2008-09 starter @ point guard: Mo Williams.

17.8 pts/4.1 asts/46.7% fg/43.6% 3p in 81 reg. season starts​

16.3 pts/4.3 asts/40.8% fg/37.2% 3p in 14 playoff games​

2009-10 starter @ point guard: Mo Williams.

15.8 pts/5.3 asts/44.2% fg/42.9% 3p in 68 reg. season starts​

14.4 pts/5.4 asts/40.9% fg/32.7% 3p in 11 playoff games​

Man, I pray for the Cleveland point guard amnesia that some of you "anyone but Mo Williams!" fans are experiencing this offseason.

I don't know about everyone else, but I think all that Mo Williams is going to contribute at this point is 15 points and 5 assists. He's going to be paid like $9 million for another 2 or 3 years, but he still hasn't shown up consistently in the playoffs. But we have Daniel Gibson, whose contract is much cheaper, can play slightly better defense (which is better than no defense at all), and was a huge playoff contributor in just his rookie year. So yes, Mo is the best PG LeBron has played with, but Boobie can provide a solid 10 points a game with acceptable defense at a much lower cost.

 

[440]

I don't know about everyone else, but I think all that Mo Williams is going to contribute at this point is 15 points and 5 assists. He's going to be paid like $9 million for another 2 or 3 years, but he still hasn't shown up consistently in the playoffs. But we have Daniel Gibson, whose contract is much cheaper, can play slightly better defense (which is better than no defense at all), and was a huge playoff contributor in just his rookie year. So yes, Mo is the best PG LeBron has played with, but Boobie can provide a solid 10 points a game with acceptable defense at a much lower cost.

This. With as much as LBJ runs the point I really think we should dump Mo for the best deal we can get and give Boobie another shot, especially if he gets stronger again next year just like he did before this year.

 

[AllTogether NOW]

Cmon If a Kwame Brown trade could land Pau Gasol

Our JJ could get some player that is even better, not this Randolph.

 

[mAo_mAo]

The problem with Boobie is that he is often injured. As much as we want Boobie to take another shot he is every way as inconsistent as Mo since he can not remain healthy for very long. He killed us when he was injured in the 2008 playoffs against the C's. Our rotation was Delonte West and Damon Jones. That's the reason why we acquired Mo, IMO.

 

[Da_James_Gang]

If it was straight up i would keep JJ. I think his jumpshot will continue to improve and i think he will be tougher around the basket once he fully develops. He has a good frame, he just needs to add definition to his body. He is much stronger than Randolph and will be a solid defender which he already has showed some signs of that last season. He already has a quick move to the basket, he just needs to perfect it. Right now its 50/50 that he gets called for a travel when he uses it lol.

 

[MYoung23]

I cant believe this is a discussion again.

 

[williemayshayes]

What is with the anti-Mo Williams sentiment that has run wild on this board?

I understand the guy has his faults and isn't as good in the playoffs, but for f**k's sake, have we forgotten about the past Cavs point guards? Mo has done a better job at "point guard" than anyone else in the LeBron era because he complements him nicely. I agree that if you can upgrade the point guard spot by trading Mo, you do it, but shit, some people want to ship his ass out for nothing.

2003-04 starter @ point guard: Ricky Davis (started season at pg before traded).

15.3 pts/5.0 asts/43.1% fg/35.4% 3p in 22 reg. season starts​

2004-05 starter @ point guard: Jeff McInnis.

13.7 pts/5.3 asts/42.1% fg/32.9% 3p in 69 reg. season starts​

2005-06 starter @ point guard: Eric Snow.

4.8 pts/4.2 asts/40.9% fg/10.0% 3p in 82 reg. season starts​

6.6 pts/2.8 asts/42.1% fg/0.0% 3p in 13 playoff games​

2006-07 starter @ point guard: Eric Snow.

5.1 pts/4.5 asts/42.3% fg/0.0% 3p in 45 reg. seasons starts​

1.7 pts/1.5 asts/31.6% fg/0.0% 3p in 19 playoff games​

2007-08 starter @ point guard: Daniel Gibson (started the season at pg).

12.6 pts/3.2 asts/47.8% fg/50.4% 3p in 26 reg. season starts​

Delonte West starter in playoffs.​

10.8 pts/4.2 asts/40.0% fg/42.9% 3p in 14 playoff games​

2008-09 starter @ point guard: Mo Williams.

17.8 pts/4.1 asts/46.7% fg/43.6% 3p in 81 reg. season starts​

16.3 pts/4.3 asts/40.8% fg/37.2% 3p in 14 playoff games​

2009-10 starter @ point guard: Mo Williams.

15.8 pts/5.3 asts/44.2% fg/42.9% 3p in 68 reg. season starts​

14.4 pts/5.4 asts/40.9% fg/32.7% 3p in 11 playoff games​

Man, I pray for the Cleveland point guard amnesia that some of you "anyone but Mo Williams!" fans are experiencing this offseason.

I would still trade him for a younger frontcourt player with 15-20 ppg capability any day of the week. Somebody like Andre Blatche (just throwing a name out there for the sake of one)

 

[Mdog1]

He may be a better player, but he is not a better defender and he is not a better fit. Waste of assets and money.

What I am saying is that he isn't a worse defender, but he is a much better scorer and that is a fact that I can't over look. We want a second option, well Monta is at least a better second option than Mo who disapears completely in the playoffs. I know Monta has issues, but so did Mo before he came to us, Mo was never exactly a healthy player until he became a part of our team.