Day 1 Draft Thread [Rounds: 1]

This is an outstanding Peppers video analysis.
Highly encourage you to watch.

Laughable someone really thinks if you feel Hooker is better than Peppers; then you're just a stupid Buckeyes homer! LOL

I love Notre Dame! I don't give a shit if Ohio State ever wins a game personally.. I'd take Hooker 20 times out of 20 over Peppers.

gijimbo said:

It isn't a good comparison when you're talking about a stat for a college prospect against stats for entire NFL teams.

Peppers wasn't playing against NFL QBs or NFL weapons every week. He wasn't even covering college receivers most of the time.

Let's give an example: Gareon Conley was taken one slot before Peppers, he allowed a 37 percent completion percentage when he was the primary defender.

Not sure how you can sell those college numbers by Peppers as good. Sure, maybe he is just raw and has to learn coverage skills.

I would expect those numbers to get worse in coverage when Peppers gets to the next level with the Browns. Offenses are going to attack him.

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I said he's average. Because that's what he is. He's also covering TE's, and RB's on check downs. That inflates a completion percentage.

He's an average cover safety. He's a liability over the top. He's not a liability underneath. That's a fallacy.

godfather said:

Laughable someone really thinks if you feel Hooker is better than Peppers; then you're just a stupid Buckeyes homer! LOL

I love Notre Dame! I don't give a shit if Ohio State ever wins a game personally.. I'd take Hooker 20 times out of 20 over Peppers.

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Because you value interceptions, or tackling?

They're exact polar opposites of each other. Hyper-athletic safeties. One who cant tackle but has elite ball skills. One who can tackle everything, but has below average ball skills.

gijimbo said:

It isn't a good comparison when you're talking about a stat for a college prospect against stats for entire NFL teams.

Peppers wasn't playing against NFL QBs or NFL weapons every week. He wasn't even covering college receivers most of the time.

Let's give an example: Gareon Conley was taken one slot before Peppers, he allowed a 37 percent completion percentage when he was the primary defender.

Not sure how you can sell those college numbers by Peppers as good. Sure, maybe he is just raw and has to learn coverage skills.

I would expect those numbers to get worse in coverage when Peppers gets to the next level with the Browns. Offenses are going to attack him.

Last take: Peppers is a gadget and a luxury pick. He would have made sense for a team in a position to take a luxury pick. The Browns needed more value at 25. Not a fan of this pick.

However, let's just watch and see what happens. If he does take hold, I think it will take a couple seasons and I don't see him being a plus player this season as a rookie.

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I don't love or hate the pick, I'd have rather had Hooker at 12 or even Foster at 25. However I think the coverage issue is being overblown. Yeah he's not great, but that's not what he's going to be asked to do a majority of the time. I wouldn't call him a luxury pick either. For any other scheme, sure. But this kind of player is integral to a William's defense. I hope he improves in coverage, but he excels at what he's going to be used for.

Just because you tackle well in college doesn't make you good in the pros. Average as a cover safety is kind. He could be a liability in coverage. If you're one dimensional, you could be a matchup issue.

gijimbo said:

Just because you tackle well in college doesn't make you good in the pros. Average as a cover safety is kind. He could be a liability in coverage. If you're one dimensional, you could be a matchup issue.

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Here's the thing though, he's not going to be asked to go over the top much. He's an in the box player. As far as the tackling, he has really good technique. It's really hard to learn to tackle in the pros now because nobody tackles in practice. I'd rather have a guy try to improve coverage, especially when that's not his main job, than have a guy try to learn to tackle. Everyone needs to know how to tackle.

Nad again, I'd have rather had Hooker. I just think the whole coverage thing is being overblown. He isn't a coverage safety.

gijimbo said:

Just because you tackle well in college doesn't make you good in the pros. Average as a cover safety is kind. He could be a liability in coverage. If you're one dimensional, you could be a matchup issue.

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So again.. Hooker. Everyone wanted Hooker. Ideal safety, right? Pages of people asking for him. He couldn't tackle in college. What will he tackle when people are bigger and faster? Grass? He had shit angles to balls. Is that just going to be even worse?

Unfounded, empty hate and negativity. This organization values athleticism and fit. They saw a player who fits Gregg Williams SS position, and who is by far the most athletic and dynamic person he's ever coached at that position.

Stop digging your heels in. No one is saying he's an all world barn burner pick. I wanted Kevin King or Njoku (weird draft for me). I still would have picked either at 25. Heck, I secretly crossed my fingers for Foster. I still want Kevin King.

But he makes sense for the Cleveland Browns probably more than any other team in the league, and that's where their board said it was time to pick him.

ajz20 said:

This is an outstanding Peppers video analysis. Highly encourage you to watch.

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Solid video. I'm cautiously optimistic Greg can find a spot for him.

No point in criticizing the kid, he's one of us now.

DJTJ said:

So again.. Hooker. Everyone wanted Hooker. Ideal safety, right? Pages of people asking for him. He couldn't tackle in college. What will he tackle when people are bigger and faster? Grass? He had shit angles to balls. Is that just going to be even worse?

Unfounded, empty hate and negativity. This organization values athleticism and fit. They saw a player who fits Gregg Williams SS position, and who is by far the most athletic and dynamic person he's ever coached at that position.

Stop digging your heels in. No one is saying he's an all world barn burner pick. I wanted Kevin King or Njoku (weird draft for me). I still would have picked either at 25. Heck, I secretly crossed my fingers for Foster. I still want Kevin King.

But he makes sense for the Cleveland Browns probably more than any other team in the league, and that's where their board said it was time to pick him.

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I like the Njoku pick a lot, he could turn into a red zone nightmare. Only thing I'm not a fan of is I wanted Foster first, King next.

Shakalu M.D. said:

Here's the thing though, he's not going to be asked to go over the top much. He's an in the box player. As far as the tackling, he has really good technique. It's really hard to learn to tackle in the pros now because nobody tackles in practice. I'd rather have a guy try to improve coverage, especially when that's not his main job, than have a guy try to learn to tackle. Everyone needs to know how to tackle.

Nad again, I'd have rather had Hooker. I just think the whole coverage thing is being overblown. He isn't a coverage safety.

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Fair, but even linebackers are asked to play coverage.

Running backs are often pass catchers and some backs are receivers even more than they get carries out of the backfield. I am worried about the team with a stud tight end finds a match up with Peppers. It'll be a massacre.

I'm worried that his coverage issues could be serious enough that teams would attack that weakness. I don't know the ins and outs of the Williams defense, so maybe he could find a way to disguise this. But, as an offense, I think it would be pretty easy to attack Peppers.

One-on-one man coverage isn't the only skill Peppers lacks. He isn't good in zone because he is too aggressive and attacks the first movement too much. (Check the scouting reports, it is under weaknesses, he has poor positioning and technique). Is this something he could learn over time? I have no doubt. But, another poster mentioned earlier that Cyprien was available and he is something like the 26th highest paid safety in the league. Why not grab him instead of wasting a premium, first-round pick?

That's all I'm wondering.

Sidenote I haven't mentioned in here.

Assume we normally play four defensive linemen, two linebackers, four defensive backs and a rover/hybrid.

As of right now, who the hell are the defensive backs? Haden and Taylor at corner I guess?

I'm having trouble figuring out who else is going to be trotting out there for us, in a league that has more and more four and five wide receiver sets each year.

bigfoot5415 said:

Solid video. I'm cautiously optimistic Greg can find a spot for him.

No point in criticizing the kid, he's one of us now.

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His spot is SS. Hue said it in the press conference.

Shakalu M.D. said:

I like the Njoku pick a lot, he could turn into a red zone nightmare. Only thing I'm not a fan of is I wanted Foster first, King next.

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I don't know why I want Kevin King so bad. He's kind of soft, but he's so tall and rangy.

I really like this years draft. There's only a few people who were off my board, and one went 2.

Kizer is still on the board. He wasn't on mine because I completely forgot he was in the draft until like two days ago.

gijimbo said:

Sidenote I haven't mentioned in here.

Assume we normally play four defensive linemen, two linebackers, four defensive backs and a rover/hybrid.

As of right now, who the hell are the defensive backs? Haden and Taylor at corner I guess?

I'm having trouble figuring out who else is going to be trotting out there for us, in a league that has more and more four and five wide receiver sets each year.

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Garrett/Shelton/Nassib/Ogbah should be lineman.
Collins Kirksey Peppers
Haden FS? CB? Taylor.

This draft is so deep at FS/CB. Great draft to have this problem.

DJTJ said:

So again.. Hooker. Everyone wanted Hooker. Ideal safety, right? Pages of people asking for him. He couldn't tackle in college. What will he tackle when people are bigger and faster? Grass? He had shit angles to balls. Is that just going to be even worse?

Unfounded, empty hate and negativity. This organization values athleticism and fit. They saw a player who fits Gregg Williams SS position, and who is by far the most athletic and dynamic person he's ever coached at that position.

Stop digging your heels in. No one is saying he's an all world barn burner pick. I wanted Kevin King or Njoku (weird draft for me). I still would have picked either at 25. Heck, I secretly crossed my fingers for Foster. I still want Kevin King.

But he makes sense for the Cleveland Browns probably more than any other team in the league, and that's where their board said it was time to pick him.

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I appreciate you divulging what you were thinking before.

I genuinely have considered what you are saying and I hope you're right! If the Browns can find a way to disguise him defensively and make it so he is just wreaking havoc constantly, it'll be a major improvement from what we've seen recently from the Browns defense.

Obviously, he has great straight-line speed and athleticism. I hope his tackling technique does translate to the NFL. It's going to be extremely important for him since he is going to be asked to be able to be formidable against the run and the pass.