2017 Browns Off Season Thread

Lee · Feb 1, 2018

chrisrich91 said:
Had a hard time reading after this:

but overall not a bad mock.

Do we actually think Sony Michel will last to round 3?

No way is sony Michel there in the 3rd, but I do like the mock.

And Why do you have an issue with the top pick?

I am going back and forth with Rosen because of the concussion thing, but he is by far the best prospect, and I really think the character thing is way over blown. He is a rich kid extreme liberal, news flash, most athletes are liberals, he will get along fine. Last time I checked, both Manning kids were rich kids too and they went on to win 2 SB's each.

chrisrich91 · Feb 1, 2018

Lee said:
No way is sony Michel there in the 3rd, but I do like the mock.

And Why do you have an issue with the top pick?

I am going back and forth with Rosen because of the concussion thing, but he is by far the best prospect, and I really think the character thing is way over blown. He is a rich kid extreme liberal, news flash, most athletes are liberals, he will get along fine. Last time I checked, both Manning kids were rich kids too and they went on to win 2 SB's each.

Love Rosen. But his first sentence after taking Rosen was:

"My personal top QB in this year’s class is Baker Mayfield."

That's where I have a problem :chuckle:

The Human Q-Tip · Feb 1, 2018

Triplethreat said:
It's also worth noting that Andy Dalton has played with AJ Green every season, and Cousins best WR to date has been Pierre Garcon...

Also Dalton's comp % regressed considerably last year to 59% and his YPA 6.7 (EW).

Also worth noting that Cousins threw significantly more passes for significantly more yards than did Dalton all three years. Total pass attempts were 1689/1354 and yards were 13176/10776

In other words, the demands placed on Cousins were higher, defenses knew he was going to throw more, and he still threw for a higher completion percentage, better TD/INT ratios, etc., than did Dalton.

AZ_ said:
No, "Last 3" I thought was a good indication of that. Kirk has only played 3 full years as a starter, so I used the most relevant sample.

Except normally, you'd expect QB's to improve as they get more experience. So the three years you chose for Dalton were his 5th, 6th, and 7th as a starter. For Cousins, those were just his 1st, 2nd, and third. It's fair to assume that Dalton is much closer to having reached his peak than is Cousins.

Triplethreat · Feb 1, 2018

chrisrich91 said:
Love Rosen. But his first sentence after taking Rosen was:

"My personal top QB in this year’s class is Baker Mayfield."

That's where I have a problem

Why?

Because a scout can point out when a player is clearly good? Arians seems to agree as well that Baker is fucking good. You're just naïve to the point he's short and will have none of it, but it's literally just that, ultra naïve.

chrisrich91 · Feb 1, 2018

Triplethreat said:
Why?

Because a scout can point out when a player is clearly good? Arians seems to agree as well that Baker is fucking good. You're just naïve to the point he's short and will have none of it, but it's literally just that, ultra naïve.

I don't mind Baker's height much. I also don't mind him as a prospect at the back end of round 1.

I just think there are at least two QBs I'd clearly rather have than him. I know you like Baker, and that's fine. I just like Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold much more. That's all.

AZ_ · Feb 1, 2018

The Human Q-Tip said:
Except normally, you'd expect QB's to improve as they get more experience. So the three years you chose for Dalton were his 5th, 6th, and 7th as a starter. For Cousins, those were just his 1st, 2nd, and third. It's fair to assume that Dalton is much closer to having reached his peak than is Cousins.

I'd be inclined to believe this line of thinking more had Kirk Cousins not mostly regressed in completion percentage, YPA and QBR without one of the best young coaches in the NFL on his team.

AZ_ · Feb 1, 2018

Triplethreat said:
Why?

Because a scout can point out when a player is clearly good? Arians seems to agree as well that Baker is fucking good. You're just naïve to the point he's short and will have none of it, but it's literally just that, ultra naïve.

Yeah man, he's just...short.

Other than that, flawless prospect in the eyes of people who have been trying to outline for you his obvious flaws for months.

Triplethreat · Feb 1, 2018

AZ_ said:
Yeah man, he's just...short.

Other than that, flawless prospect in the eyes of people who have been trying to outline for you his obvious flaws for months.

You've pointed out that he doesn't make reads. Even if true, it's not his fault that his offense produces a lot of wide open shots, and shouldn't be viewed as a negative against him.

You can still see the elite accuracy and ball placement to every level.

AZ_ · Feb 1, 2018

Triplethreat said:
You've pointed out that he doesn't make reads. Even if true, it's not his fault that his offense produces a lot of wide open shots, and shouldn't be viewed as a negative against him.

You can still see the elite accuracy and ball placement to every level.

You bet, friend.

That's all we've done. Reads and is short...

Lee · Feb 1, 2018

chrisrich91 said:
Love Rosen. But his first sentence after taking Rosen was:

"My personal top QB in this year’s class is Baker Mayfield."

That's where I have a problem

Oh, me too, lmao.

I dont get the love for Baker, I just dont. He seems to have many of the same traits as all of our previous first round busts. Rosen would be the different pick.

Snowblind · Feb 1, 2018

AZ_ said:
I'd be inclined to believe this line of thinking more had Kirk Cousins not mostly regressed in completion percentage, YPA and QBR without one of the best young coaches in the NFL on his team.

Yeah, but didn't he lose two 1,000 yard receivers that he had chemistry and a rhythm with? His team was also getting injured left and right the entire season. He had no consistent running game and injuries to his offensive line and best receiver (Reed) also doesn't help.

I don't get why everyone is downplaying the injuries his team has dealt with and I don't even know if their defense is that great either. Cousins is definitely on the threshold of being a top 10 guy you can win with. It still takes a whole team to win championships but I don't think cousins would be the problem.

AZ_ · Feb 1, 2018

Snowblind said:
Yeah, but didn't he lose two 1,000 yard receivers that he had chemistry and a rhythm with? His team was also getting injured left and right the entire season. He had no consistent running game and injuries to his offensive line and best receiver (Reed) also doesn't help.

I don't get why everyone is downplaying the injuries his team has dealt with and I don't even know if their defense is that great either Cousins is definitely on the threshold of being a top 10 guy you can win with. It still takes a whole team to win championships but I don't think cousins would be the problem.

The realization that Cousins doesn't necessarily make the players around him that much better to the point where their offense is significantly damaged without a few guys isn't a great selling point for giving him the biggest QB contract in the league.

Losing Chris Thompson sucked, Terrelle Pryor being relatively ineffective wasn't great. But in all honesty, good teams can survive losses like that.

Triplethreat · Feb 1, 2018

Cousins dealt with drop after drop too. His receivers were ass and dick last year. Facts.

Snowblind · Feb 1, 2018

AZ_ said:
The realization that Cousins doesn't necessarily make the players around him that much better to the point where their offense is significantly damaged without a few guys isn't a great selling point for giving him the biggest QB contract in the league.

Losing Chris Thompson sucked, Terrelle Pryor being relatively ineffective wasn't great. But in all honesty, good teams can survive losses like that.

Right and I don't know how good of a team the redskins have, since I'm not a fan and don't follow them closely. But for cousins to still put up those numbers and still get them 7 wins, I think is pretty good and if we had a qb like that we would be happy.

FiveThous · Feb 1, 2018

Cousins truthers, let's assemble weekly to discuss his potential impact on this team.

I'll bring a couple pizzas, can someone volunteer for the following items:
Beer
Utensils
Paper products
Soft Drinks
Coffee
Bottled water

2017 Browns Off Season Thread

Lee

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chrisrich91

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The Human Q-Tip

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Triplethreat

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