2019 Series #45 | Indians vs. White Sox | September 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th

Real Deal said:

Closers just come out of nowhere and perform, then fall off a cliff. See Hand. I hated Closers my whole baseball life.

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That's why I'd let Wittgren have the next few save opportunities to see what he's got. Outside of guys like Mariano and Hoffman, I really can't think of too many guys that were dominant for multiple years in a row as a closer. They exist, but more often than not, they fizzle out for some reason.

Hell, Edwin Diaz last year for Seattle absolutely lit the world on fire: 57 saves, 1.96 ERA, 0.79 WHIP, 124 K in 73.1 IP, 3.2 WAR

This year? One of the worst closers in the business: 25 saves, 5.65 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 86 K in 51 IP, -0.6 WAR

Relievers are so hot and cold, and they really never have a chance to break out of a funk or cool down because they don't throw a ton of innings to regress or ascend to a mean. That's why when you've got a scuffling guy like Hand or a guy like Wittgren who's been pretty good, you need to use them in the their current form, not what you think they can be.. especially when you're clawing for a playoff spot like we are.

sportscoach said:

Give him the game ball at least!

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Without Mercado the Tribe would be in a deep hole.

If tonight’s game isn’t enough to call up Karinchak, then I don’t know what the hell we’re doing here. Oh, he struck out the side tonight, by the way.

Mr. Orange said:

I just think it will be very difficult in October with our bullpen against the likes of the Yankees, Astros, and Twins. Sure they have a chance if they get in, but I wouldn't bet a significant amount of money on it if I were you.

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Yeah, but you mentioned until the “next rebuild”. Which indicates even when everyone gets healthy we’re still not very good...

BMAN said:

Yeah, but you mentioned until the “next rebuild”. Which indicates even when everyone gets healthy we’re still not very good...

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Stop engaging the troll.

Maybe the Indians were on to something when we heard the rumors of trading Brad Hand. My goodness.

Kevalier said:

If tonight’s game isn’t enough to call up Karinchak, then I don’t know what the hell we’re doing here. Oh, he struck out the side tonight, by the way.

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He won't be able to play in the playoffs for us. They kept guys down there because they are in the playoffs there. If he gets added to the roster it won't be for another week or so and even then he will just be here probably for low leverage situations.

BMAN said:

Yeah, but you mentioned until the “next rebuild”. Which indicates even when everyone gets healthy we’re still not very good...

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Well it's more that the clock is ticking on the core. Frankie has what....one more year with us likely? Puig is gone at the end of the year. Kipnis gone, though if his first few games are any indication, Chang looks to be a solid replacement 2B. We will see about Reyes going forward. Kluber is aging. etc. But it's more that the glorious window of 2016-2017 when both the Yankees and RedSox were down, we got close but couldn't seal the deal. It's really less to do with the Indians, who have a good but not great team, and more with the competition. Even the White Sox I expect to start making a run in the next couple of years.

The Indians are who they are. A good team mostly. They will have a 1-3 year rebuild, and a 1-3 year contention window, surrounded by teams that get to the postseason and bow out early. And I think we are on the back end of that contention cycle. Certainly having a closer that a minor leaguer could tee off on is not helping.

Now if the Dolans pay Frankie....which they should....then the math changes. But I doubt they can afford him. They don't exactly have a history of paying their guys if they didn't lock them up on early deals.

sportscoach said:

He won't be able to play in the playoffs for us. They kept guys down there because they are in the playoffs there. If he gets added to the roster it won't be for another week or so and even then he will just be here probably for low leverage situations.

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Sure he would. We would just have to petition the commissioner's office to have him replace Kluber or Jefry Rodriguez since they have both been on the 60 day IL for more than 60 days.

Mr. Orange said:

Now if the Dolans pay Frankie....which they should....then the math changes. But I doubt they can afford him. They don't exactly have a history of paying their guys if they didn't lock them up on early deals.

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I know we have this discussion every few weeks like clockwork (there should probably be a dedicated thread just for Lindor’s future free agency at this point), but I can’t begrudge the Dolans for not being able to keep Lindor.

I’m betting the amount he signs for will end up being up to $100 million more than the maximum we’d be able to pay him. Like not even in the same ballpark. It won’t be a case of the Dolans haggling/nickel and diming over a few million so the player walks.

Derek said:

Sure he would. We would just have to petition the commissioner's office to have him replace Kluber or Jefry Rodriguez since they have both been on the 60 day IL for more than 60 days.

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I really doubt it would go through mostly because we added Hoyt and Flaherty to the roster on 9/1. If they wanted to be able to get Karinchak on the playoff roster, there is a good probability they needed to add him then. I don't think right now it would work adding them. Now if we have another injury, it may be possible, but I am pretty sure the time has passed, plus Jefry is about to finish his rehab in the minors. I am pretty sure they would have had to add him within a certain amount of time from the injuries and they didn't. I don't see a legit way of getting him on the playoff team unless I know the rules incorrectly for adding someone to the playoff roster after 8/31.

sportscoach said:

I really doubt it would go through mostly because we added Hoyt and Flaherty to the roster on 9/1. If they wanted to be able to get Karinchak on the playoff roster, there is a good probability they needed to add him then. I don't think right now it would work adding them. Now if we have another injury, it may be possible, but I am pretty sure the time has passed, plus Jefry is about to finish his rehab in the minors. I am pretty sure they would have had to add him within a certain amount of time from the injuries and they didn't. I don't see a legit way of getting him on the playoff team unless I know the rules incorrectly for adding someone to the playoff roster after 8/31.

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There's no "if"

It would go through

Derek said:

There's no "if"

It would go through

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You may have to clarify the rules for me then on how, since I didn't think you could add a player now for an injury to a player that happened months ago. I thought there was a time limit for a player could be added to the playoff roster after 8/31 because of an injury. I personally thought the injury had to happen after 8/31 so you may have to explain the rule better for me.

What does Sept. 1 mean for postseason rosters?
If a player is to be eligible for a team's postseason roster, he must be in its organization as of 11:59 p.m. ET on Aug. 31. Specifically, players must be on the 40-man roster, the 60-day disabled list or the bereavement/family medical emergency list at that time.

As mentioned, players acquired via trade in September are not eligible for their new team, and the same goes for those signed as free agents during that time. However, if a club wants to add a player who was not on the 40-man roster but was in the organization, it can petition the Commissioner's Office if that player is replacing someone who has been on the 60-day DL for at least 60 days.

One notable example of this was pitcher Brandon Finnegan, who appeared in every stage of the 2014 postseason for the Royals despite the fact that he was not added to the 40-man roster until Kansas City purchased his contract from its Double-A club on Sept. 1 of that year.

@Derek

I am just trying to figure out who we would move from the 40 man roster to add Karinchak since Salazar will likely be switched to the 60 day DL to readd Jefry. Stephens and Edwards have been outrighted already (For Hoyt/Flaherty and Zimmer).

I feel once the AAA playoffs get done, Smith, Zimmer, Allen, Velazquez and Bradley will be added to the big league club. Jefry will be back sometime before or after this time frame as well. The only other two left would be Hentges and Mejia on the 40 man roster. Mejia is hurt, but putting him on the 60 man would effect his MLB time a bit, but I would move him if that meant being able to had more talent to eligible playoff talent. Also we haven't ruled out getting Kluber back sometime, so I am not sure when and in what capacity.