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Favorite player on the Indians, that actually sucked?

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sportscoach said:
Nagy to me was a 3rd/4th starter. He become just a really dependable starter for all the years he pitched really. Though his 92 season he actually was an ace, outside of that just a dependable starter.
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I think this undersells him quite a bit, and I was never really a big fan.

If you take out '93 where he missed most of the season, he averaged over 3.5 bWAR and 3.7 fWAR '91-'99.

On average, that's a top 25 pitcher in the game, year in and year out (he was pretty damn consistent year to year). I don't think he's an ace, but that's a really good #2 guy.
 
Derek said:
I think this undersells him quite a bit, and I was never really a big fan.

If you take out '93 where he missed most of the season, he averaged over 3.5 bWAR and 3.7 fWAR '91-'99.

On average, that's a top 25 pitcher in the game, year in and year out (he was pretty damn consistent year to year). I don't think he's an ace, but that's a really good #2 guy.
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His raw stats from that period are a bit misleading because it was the 'roids era. A sub-3.50 ERA put you in the discussion for Cy Young.
 
The Human Q-Tip said:
His raw stats from that period are a bit misleading because it was the 'roids era. A sub-3.50 ERA put you in the discussion for Cy Young.
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That's why I try my best to look at the league adjusted numbers like WAR and ERA+.

His 1996 season looks like what we'd expect out of a good number 2 guy, but he was 7th in the majors in bWAR that year and 6th in WPA.
 
Derek said:
That's why I try my best to look at the league adjusted numbers like WAR and ERA+.

His 1996 season looks like what we'd expect out of a good number 2 guy, but he was 7th in the majors in bWAR that year and 6th in WPA.
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I also have my own system from pitchers as well. Guys like Nagy who didn't strikeout a ton, walk a fair amount and gave up a bunch of hits are always in my mind more 3rd/4th starters.

Now if you take the adjusted number it does put him as 1/2 in seasons like 92 and 96. The other young seasons around a 3. I just always saw Nagy as that guy who will give you a solid start every 5 days, but won't wow you with the fantasy stats.

At the end of the day, he is the guy every team needs in their rotation regardless of how we rate them in our personal philosophies
 
sportscoach said:
I also have my own system from pitchers as well. Guys like Nagy who didn't strikeout a ton, walk a fair amount and gave up a bunch of hits are always in my mind more 3rd/4th starters.

Now if you take the adjusted number it does put him as 1/2 in seasons like 92 and 96. The other young seasons around a 3. I just always saw Nagy as that guy who will give you a solid start every 5 days, but won't wow you with the fantasy stats.

At the end of the day, he is the guy every team needs in their rotation regardless of how we rate them in our personal philosophies
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This is the conversation though, you're not adjusting for the era. There wasn't a single starting pitcher that averaged 10 K/9 in 1996. There were 19 guys that accomplished that this year! Nagy was 29th in K/9 in 1996 with 6.77; the 29th ranked guy this year averaged 8.69 K/9.

I'm also not sure why we need to look at his numbers outside of the two years where he was ace quality, they all count.

Regardless, 3+ WAR will put you in the top 35 pitchers in baseball year in and year out. Add in that he touched ace status across two seasons, and you're really underselling him.
 
As a really young fan in the 1980s I was a big fan of platoon outfielder Carmen Castillo.

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I didn't really understand what a platoon meant, or why the manager used a platoon. All I knew was that I didn't like Mel Hall and whenever they played Castillo instead, he got on base twice a game. At least that's what it felt like. So whenever the Indians were playing a righty I was just sitting there pissed that I had to watch Mel Hall line out.
 
For a guy that was with the Indians most of my childhood:
Chris Bando

Free agent I was excited about and sucked once they got here:
Keith Hernandez
 
BMAN said:
Shelley fucking Duncan. But not as big of a fan of this one dude that I encountered at a game. Whenever Duncan appeared, he would just yell “SHELLEY” uncontrollably. That was awesome.
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Damnit, I came here to say Shelley Duncan too. I thought I was the only one...

Otherwise, Gio Urshela. I live in Toledo and went to a lot of Mud Hens games when they'd play the Clippers back when Lindor was in AAA. Urshela was on those teams and I thought the dude was solid. He sucked for us but has gone on to be a very good player for the Yankees... of course.
 
TheLand1287 said:
Damnit, I came here to say Shelley Duncan too. I thought I was the only one...

Otherwise, Gio Urshela. I live in Toledo and went to a lot of Mud Hens games when they'd play the Clippers back when Lindor was in AAA. Urshela was on those teams and I thought the dude was solid. He sucked for us but has gone on to be a very good player for the Yankees... of course.
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If it makes you feel better, last year was probably a fluke.
 
This guy was a straight up asshole but he was a really good closer in Atlanta. Sub 3 ERA for his career, comes to Cleveland at 26 years old to throw a 5.45 ERA with 7 losses in 38 appearances.


cleveland-indians-john-rocker-who-hurled-some-hard-verbal-pitches-at-picture-id97263285
 
Phills14 said:
This guy was a straight up asshole but he was a really good closer in Atlanta. Sub 3 ERA for his career, comes to Cleveland at 26 years old to throw a 5.45 ERA with 7 losses in 38 appearances.


cleveland-indians-john-rocker-who-hurled-some-hard-verbal-pitches-at-picture-id97263285
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Him walking nearly a guy per inning in Atlanta should have been a red flag that he might not remain effective much longer :chuckle:
 
Richie Sexson is one guy that I realize now wasn't actually any good. He was actually kind of shitty.
JDailey23 said:
Mark Whiten
Coco Crisp V1
Ben Broussard
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Not sure how I missed this one, but Coco Crisp was actually really fucking good during his first stint with the Tribe. You should feel no shame in that one.

Broussard really wasn't bad either. He was just forgettable.
 
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