• Changing RCF's index page, please click on "Forums" to access the forums.

The 2020 Cleveland Indians

Do Not Sell My Personal Information
CATS44 said:
There's three other things about Quantrill that I like.

1] He is very athletic. He was a three sport star in HS...baseball, hockey, and volleyball, of all things.

2] He is from Canada, and because of weather conditions, Canadian kids tend to take longer to develop.

3] If you check his stacast numbers, he doesn't give up many hard hit balls.

He comes very close to Kluber in statcast.

Ave EV...87.1 to 87.3
Barrel %...5.8 to 5.7
Hard hit %...32.2 to 31.7

Not wanting to oversell the kid, caveats are numerous. Mostly, a small sample size, abetted by already pitching in two different leagues...so nobody has seen much of him.
Click to expand...
I understand he is also a snappy dresser and a good listener. :cool:

I like the Q, too!
 
The team is in a unique position this Winter: they are a contender with virtually no untouchables on the roster.
I expect a lot of roster turnover.
 
Regarding untouchables, with all of the uncertainty within the sport and society as a whole at this time.... Is there even a 5% chance that Lindor is with the Tribe on Opening Day 2021.

Just seems like it would do so much to benefit the 'Culture of the Cleveland Indians' to run it back with Fankie and José one last season and let the cards fall where they may at the deadline (also could increase Lindor's value after a pedestrian season, especially re: RISP)

The claim is repeatedly made that we have traded away our best players in order to have prospects and financial flexibility into the future. Unfortunately neither of those things win games or put fans in the stands. Casual fans only show up for marquee names and playoff games.

Also, what does this do for the young talent who sees firsthand any time you reach great success as an Indian that your name will be rumored to be traded before you'd reach free agency?

Just pondering/sulking over this post-season "run." Many of us had wanted to see a Puig return citing how pitiful the forecast was for the outfield over the forseeable future. And others readily objected to such. So the question becomes, "When do we spend?"

Are we looking to win or is this entirely soley a business venture where success is secondary?
 
Beanie4Heisman said:
Are we looking to win or is this entirely soley a business venture where success is secondary?
Click to expand...

"Success" is a relative term in this regard. Is success solely winning a World Series? Or is it being in the playoffs every year? Being in the playoff hunt every year? Having an entertaining team that has at least a decent a chance to win every time they take the field? Having recognizable players that ESPN talks about a lot?

I think our franchise has done a remarkable job of keeping the team competitive while maintaining the business aspect of MLB. I see no reason to doubt that they will be able to continue to do that in the fuyure.
 
We let Lindor walk and get nothing back, that’s a disaster.
These guys learn early on it’s a business.
Beanie4Heisman said:
Regarding untouchables, with all of the uncertainty within the sport and society as a whole at this time.... Is there even a 5% chance that Lindor is with the Tribe on Opening Day 2021.

Just seems like it would do so much to benefit the 'Culture of the Cleveland Indians' to run it back with Fankie and José one last season and let the cards fall where they may at the deadline (also could increase Lindor's value after a pedestrian season, especially re: RISP)

The claim is repeatedly made that we have traded away our best players in order to have prospects and financial flexibility into the future. Unfortunately neither of those things win games or put fans in the stands. Casual fans only show up for marquee names and playoff games.

Also, what does this do for the young talent who sees firsthand any time you reach great success as an Indian that your name will be rumored to be traded before you'd reach free agency?

Just pondering/sulking over this post-season "run." Many of us had wanted to see a Puig return citing how pitiful the forecast was for the outfield over the forseeable future. And others readily objected to such. So the question becomes, "When do we spend?"

Are we looking to win or is this entirely soley a business venture where success is secondary?
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lee
Beanie4Heisman said:
So the question becomes, "When do we spend?"

Are we looking to win or is this entirely soley a business venture where success is secondary?
Click to expand...
When we win 93 games and are in a pennant race the fans still don't show up. Even a division winner doesn't generate much in terms of ticket sales. The goal seems to be putting a competitive team on the field consistently at the lowest possible cost.

I've seen rankings where they divide the payroll by number of wins to see which team got the most wins for the buck. The Indians do pretty well. I think that's the goal - to finish first in the efficiency standings, not lose money, and keep growing the value of the franchise for when it is eventually sold.
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
When we win 93 games and are in a pennant race the fans still don't show up. Even a division winner doesn't generate much in terms of ticket sales. The goal seems to be putting a competitive team on the field consistently at the lowest possible cost.

I've seen rankings where they divide the payroll by number of wins to see which team got the most wins for the buck. The Indians do pretty well. I think that's the goal - to finish first in the efficiency standings, not lose money, and keep growing the value of the franchise for when it is eventually sold.
Click to expand...
Harsh assessment but probably not far off the mark.
 
Wham with the Right Hand said:
When we win 93 games and are in a pennant race the fans still don't show up. Even a division winner doesn't generate much in terms of ticket sales. The goal seems to be putting a competitive team on the field consistently at the lowest possible cost.

I've seen rankings where they divide the payroll by number of wins to see which team got the most wins for the buck. The Indians do pretty well. I think that's the goal - to finish first in the efficiency standings, not lose money, and keep growing the value of the franchise for when it is eventually sold.
Click to expand...

I disagree with that being their goal. I think their goal is to win a championship. They've just decided that the most likely route to doing that isn't loading up everything for just one season -- it's to field the most competitive playoff-caliber team they can given the salary constraints, for as many years as they can at a time, and hope that one of those teams gets hot at the right time. If they can see that a particular multi-year playoff run is about to end, they reload in the hopes of being back in the playoffs in 2-3 years.

I'm actually fine with that given the realities of where we are as a market.
 
Beanie4Heisman said:
Regarding untouchables, with all of the uncertainty within the sport and society as a whole at this time.... Is there even a 5% chance that Lindor is with the Tribe on Opening Day 2021.

Just seems like it would do so much to benefit the 'Culture of the Cleveland Indians' to run it back with Fankie and José one last season and let the cards fall where they may at the deadline (also could increase Lindor's value after a pedestrian season, especially re: RISP)

The claim is repeatedly made that we have traded away our best players in order to have prospects and financial flexibility into the future. Unfortunately neither of those things win games or put fans in the stands. Casual fans only show up for marquee names and playoff games.

Also, what does this do for the young talent who sees firsthand any time you reach great success as an Indian that your name will be rumored to be traded before you'd reach free agency?

Just pondering/sulking over this post-season "run." Many of us had wanted to see a Puig return citing how pitiful the forecast was for the outfield over the forseeable future. And others readily objected to such. So the question becomes, "When do we spend?"

Are we looking to win or is this entirely soley a business venture where success is secondary?
Click to expand...

For what it’s worth, the Indians increased payroll by nearly 40M dollars from Opening Day 2016 (96.3M) to Opening Day 2018 (134.8M) - with the team winning 94, 102 and 91 games in the process - and the fans simply did not come out in significantly higher numbers.

The unfortunate reality is that the fan support simply isn’t there for the ownership to comfortably maintain a payroll in the top half of the league.

Do I wish that was different? Of course. We all do. But it’s beyond obvious at this point that the Indians ownership is simply not going to sacrifice their bottom line to chase a few extra wins.
 
Some very interesting conversations happening here. IMO Lindor is as good as gone, and the return will be a good one. Likely the best return of any recent trade, or at least it should be. There will be numerous teams bidding on the services of a top 5 player in all of MLB that plays a premium position.

They will listen, but not entertain offers for Bieber, nor should they. This team's pitching depth and quality are enviable. If they were to put a SP on the market it would either be Civale or McKenzie. Either will retrieve the big bat desired if they feel they need it. The depth as we speak is:
1. Bieber
2. Carrasco(could pitch out of the 4 hole with Plesac and Quantrill moving up to 2 and 3)
3. Plesac
4. Quantrill
5. Civale
6. McKenzie
7. Allen
8. Moss
9. Mejia
10. Hentges.

The BP should be:
Karinchak
Clase
Wittgren
Maton
Hill
Perez
Gose
Nelson

Players that will no longer be with the Indians are likely to be Santana, DeShields, Hand, Naquin, Hernandez, and one of the catchers. They can send Cimber down the road and the team would be better for it.

As of now, this is where we sit positionally:
C- Perez/Leon, Hedges
1B- Naylor, Bradley, Bauers
2B- Chang, Miller, T. Freeman
3B- Ramirez, Chang
SS- Chang, T. Freeman, Miller
LF- Naylor, Johnson, Reyes, Luplow
CF- Mercado, Johnson
RF- Johnson, Luplow, Reyes

The Lindor trade will add at least one big bat to the mix and likely 2 as the Indians don't really need pitching in return. I can see the Reds being aggressive for Lindor's services, as well as the Yankees.
 
It was awful this year even though it looked to be very good on paper. Baseball is funny that way. All I know is that I no longer need to see DeShields, Naquin, Santana, and 3 catchers that can't hit a barn standing inside of it in the lineup. Mercado is very close to losing my support also. Luplow mashes LHP, but doesn't give me that warm, tingly feeling when the game is on the line. If it is, he probably isn't facing a LHP. This team needs some thump to go with Ramirez and Reyes. I think Naylor will be a good stick. I also think that Johnson has some real potential. Will Jones and Freeman get opportunities? Are they even ready after what was essentially a cancelled season for them? What will be added from a Lindor trade? Can any of Chang, Miller, T. Freeman lockdown 2B?
Criznit said:
Just read the experts picks on the playoffs over at MLB.COM. Unsurprisingly, not much Tribe love , most have us getting bounced by the Yanks.. Shocker I know... But then there is this guy. I don't know who he is, but he was the only one who picked the Indians to win it all.. I like him...

WILL LEITCH

ALWC winners: TB, CLE, CWS, MIN
NLWC winners: LAD, STL, CHC, ATL
ALDS: TB-CLE -- Indians in 4
ALDS: CWS-MIN -- Twins in 5
NLDS: LAD-STL -- Dodgers in 3
NLDS: CHC-ATL -- Braves in 4
ALCS: CLE-MIN -- Indians in 6
NLCS: LAD-ATL -- Dodgers in 5
WS: LAD-CLE -- Indians in 7

My general rule in NCAA Tournament brackets -- which, amazingly, is what this all looks like -- is to pick upsets early but go chalk late. Which is why I surprised myself by essentially doing the opposite here: I have two Wild Card Series upsets (the White Sox, who don’t really feel like an upset over the A’s, and the Cardinals, who get to face a team whose top two starters are either out or questionable because of injury), but otherwise I went with the higher seed. But when we went late, particularly in the World Series, I couldn’t do it. I want Clayton Kershaw to have his breakthrough, and the Dodgers to finally win that World Series they’ve been looking for since the year Kershaw was born, but there’s something about Cleveland, in this odd dog’s breakfast of a season, being the one that comes out on top. That rotation can throw with anyone, and it feels like a Francisco Lindor World Series: He’ll do something amazing to remind us why we thought we’d be talking about him all season … and surely won’t stop this offseason. The Indians are the sort of team that will finally win when no one expects them to. This is that “when.”
Click to expand...

You may want to edit this or delete it altogether.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Video

Episode 3-15: "Cavs Survive and Advance"

Rubber Rim Job Podcast Spotify

Episode 3:15: Cavs Survive and Advance
Top