The 2020 Cleveland Indians

[Criznit]

This was my main angle. If he were to do something like 3 years at 20 million I'd say that's a very agreeable number for both sides. I just don't see any of the youthful guys breaking into the infield and making a major impact next season. It certainly won't be M. Freeman or Yu Chang forcing the hand of Tito or Sandy for playing time....

All ears as you all know far more than I, about our prospects and pipeline.

1st thought. One or more of the players in the pending Lindor trade gets penciled right into the daily lineup. That might be a 2B/SS/OF
2nd thought. Jram moves over to 2B and Nolan Jones gets a live audition with Chang/FA/O.Miller as available secondary options. Edit. Clement is in this mix.
3rd thought. Tyler Freeman or Owen Miller get ample time in 2021. Owen Miller is the dark horse to get regular time in 2021. Edit. Clement is in this mix.
4th thought. Best FA available for under 5 million dollars that can play 2B/SS or even 3B.

Lots of moving parts, if Lindor moves on, any number of scenarios could transpire. One thing I think you can count on though is lower payroll in 2021.

 

[Derek]

If so, the Indians outfield will continue to be among the league’s worst. Also, I’m not sure a -0.6 WAR is league average.

Must have missed the part where I said "across 1000+ PA"

He's nothing special, but he'll likely be a .270/.325/.440 guy next year if he can stay healthy.

The guy is in a slump. Three weeks ago his numbers looked great. Three weeks of being hot or cold shouldn't change your evaluation of a player, especially when we have a large sample size of information to go off.

 

[Kevalier]

1st thought. One of the player in the pending Lindor trade gets penciled right into the daily lineup. That might be a 2B/SS/OF
2nd thought. Jram moves over to 2B and Nolan Jones gets a live audition with Chang/FA/O.Miller as available secondary options. Edit. Clement is in this mix.
3rd thought. Tyler Freeman or Owen Miller get ample time in 2021. Owen Miller is the dark horse to get regular time in 2021. Edit. Clement is in this mix.
4th thought. Best FA available for under 5 million dollars that can play 2B/SS or even 3B.

Lots of moving parts, if Lindor moves on, any number of scenarios could transpire. One thing I think you can count on though is lower payroll in 2021.

I really think the ship has sailed on moving Jose off of 3B. The defensive metrics that most of us rely upon indicate that he's much better off staying at 3B instead of jumping over to 2B.

 

[sportscoach]

This was my main angle. If he were to do something like 3 years at 20 million I'd say that's a very agreeable number for both sides. I just don't see any of the youthful guys breaking into the infield and making a major impact next season. It certainly won't be M. Freeman or Yu Chang forcing the hand of Tito or Sandy for playing time....

All ears as you all know far more than I, about our prospects and pipeline.

I am not against Hernandez being back, but I actually want a SS stopgap if we trade Lindor. We have plenty of guys who could possibly play 2B. We dont know if Freeman has the arm for SS, but fits 2B perfectly. Miller has a bat that compares to a Mark Loretta (I think Neil Walker), but either way he is a sleeper to start at 2B next season. Chang has a ton of power and isn't horrible defensively, so he will be in the mix. Then Clement looks like an utility guy, but i think he is a bit better than they give him credit for. All those guys can play 2B.

 

[DCTribefan]

Must have missed the part where I said "across 1000+ PA"

He's nothing special, but he'll likely be a .270/.325/.440 guy next year if he can stay healthy.

The guy is in a slump. Three weeks ago his numbers looked great. Three weeks of being hot or cold shouldn't change your evaluation of a player, especially when we have a large sample size of information to go off.

FWIW, I had Naquin on my deep league fantasy team this year and he had one decent week. For September, his OPS is .496 with a .176 BA. That’s one heck of a slump. We can hope he reverts back to his rookie season form (2016) but I just don’t see it happening.

 

[Criznit]

I really think the ship has sailed on moving Jose off of 3B. The defensive metrics that most of us rely upon indicate that he's much better off staying at 3B instead of jumping over to 2B.

Though I generally agree with you, Nolan Jones only pays 3B at this point so if he works his way in that is where he is likely to play. A move to 1B/OF isn't completely off the table for him though.

 

[Derek]

FWIW, I had Naquin on my deep league fantasy team this year and he had one decent week. For September, his OPS is .496 with a .176 BA. That’s one heck of a slump. We can hope he reverts back to his rookie season form (2016) but I just don’t see it happening.

Yeah, and that’s three weeks. Not irregular at all.

I don’t think anybody is expecting him to be what he was for those 2-3 months in his rookie year, but we have a large enough sample of him being a solid MLB hitter that we should expect him to be exactly that.

 

[Gson]

Lots of names in here. This organization seems to be allergic to drafting or finding productive OF talent.

Santander...
Frazier...
Brantley...

Among others.. it's not that the Indians can't draft or find productive OF talent.. it's that they trade it way, the players get hurt or those players leave.. George Valera is, perhaps, the next guy up.. that could be a phenomenal OF talent.. but, he's at least two years away, now..

 

[sportscoach]

Santander...
Frazier...
Brantley...

Among others.. it's not that the Indians can't draft or find productive OF talent.. it's that they trade it way, the players get hurt or those players leave.. George Valera is, perhaps, the next guy up.. that could be a phenomenal OF talent.. but, he's at least two years away, now..

You also cannot 100% count this season with at least the younger hitters since this is a way different scenario than anyone could have expected or dealt with before. I will wait until next season to see how we rank them and who we keep

 

[Gson]

You also cannot 100% count this season with at least the younger hitters since this is a way different scenario than anyone could have expected or dealt with before. I will wait until next season to see how we rank them and who we keep

Waiting as a choice.. meh..

Disagree with this.. sure, you can count this season.. Baseball COUNTS everything.. all the time.. regardless of the wind direction.. number of games.. etc.. It all matters..

 

[Wham with the Right Hand]

From Fangraphs:

On the other hand, Carlos Santana (.199/.349/.350, 95 wRC+) was a let down, and their outfield was a black hole, combining to hit .196/.270/.304 for major league-worsts in wRC+ (54) and WAR (-1.0).

So...

Our outfield hit .196

Our first baseman and cleanup hitter hit .199

I don't even want to calculate what our catchers hit but Berto had the highest average at .165.

We hit the Mendoza trifecta.

 

[sportscoach]

Waiting as a choice.. meh..

Disagree with this.. sure, you can count this season.. Baseball COUNTS everything.. all the time.. regardless of the wind direction.. number of games.. etc.. It all matters..

I get that, but with Naquin coming off of injury without a spring training, then this is Mercados second season plus hitters being behind the pitchers right away, there is a bunch of younger players who really struggled this season.

I mean some people are writing off Mercado completely. Then you guys would bave to write off Bryan Reynolds of the pirates, who hit over .300 last season as well.

My point is a lot of the rookies/young players last season are struggling this season because they weren't prepared like a lot of the veterans were. I want to wait to see how they rebound next spring/next season before i make my own conclusion on them.

 

[sportscoach]

From Fangraphs:

On the other hand, Carlos Santana (.199/.349/.350, 95 wRC+) was a let down, and their outfield was a black hole, combining to hit .196/.270/.304 for major league-worsts in wRC+ (54) and WAR (-1.0).

So...

Our outfield hit .196

Our first baseman and cleanup hitter hit .199

I don't even want to calculate what our catchers hit but Berto had the highest average at .165.

We hit the Mendoza trifecta.

With our pitching, just even average production from them in the playoffs, would make us the team to beat.

 

[Gson]

I get that, but with Naquin coming off of injury without a spring training, then this is Mercados second season plus hitters being behind the pitchers right away, there is a bunch of younger players who really struggled this season.

I mean some people are writing off Mercado completely. Then you guys would bave to write off Bryan Reynolds of the pirates, who hit over .300 last season as well.

My point is a lot of the rookies/young players last season are struggling this season because they weren't prepared like a lot of the veterans were. I want to wait to see how they rebound next spring/next season before i make my own conclusion on them.

Yeah.. I get the sympathy/empathy angle.. but....

As far as writing off.. two points.. The first, the source/people doing the "writing off" can't post two messages without them both being contextually negative.. & it doesn't make a hill of beans worth of difference if it's a player, coach, manager or front office.. This is an ego thing.. they don't want to be wrong.. and this is a way to protect their easily bruised ego.. If a player tanks, it was predicted.. if he doesn't, that's what we all (including the negative nelly) wanted to see.. Heads I win.. tails you lose..

Secondly, imagine what those same "writer offers" would be saying if it was Jim Thome with his first season with the Indians.. It was not pretty.. not close to pretty.. How about Omar?.. a strong fastball would knock the bat out of his hand.. Corey Snyder.. was going to be the next Mickey Mantle.. but.. couldn't hit a curve ball.. and swung at every one started just on the outside corner of the plate while falling into the LHH's batter's box....truly fugly.. he'd need an oar to reach many of those that he missed.. There is a laundry list of players that have come up to the Major Leagues their first, second and third times and just took a dump on Gabe Paul's, John Hart's or Mark Shapiro's office rug..

It should be noted, first impressions matter more than later draft selections.. otherwise, it's all about how a player approaches their at bats and defensive movements. It's part of the reason why you and other learned chat contributors can look at what Carlos Santana did a week ago thursday and say.. he's got it back.. no bout a doubt it..

& be right.. Thoughts?..

 

[LL3]

I get that, but with Naquin coming off of injury without a spring training, then this is Mercados second season plus hitters being behind the pitchers right away, there is a bunch of younger players who really struggled this season.

I mean some people are writing off Mercado completely. Then you guys would bave to write off Bryan Reynolds of the pirates, who hit over .300 last season as well.

My point is a lot of the rookies/young players last season are struggling this season because they weren't prepared like a lot of the veterans were. I want to wait to see how they rebound next spring/next season before i make my own conclusion on them.

This short season was a poor one for Mercado, but I still believe he has a shot at being in the regular mix next season - he is inexpensive, Had success last year, and has some tools, including a pretty good glove in center...not something of which we have many.