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Lindor trade ideas

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EdMonix11 said:
My buddy from Toronto seems to think the Jays untouchables are: Bichette, Guerrero Jr, Biggio, Pearson and Martin.

I think everybody on here is really underrating Groshans. People in Toronto think he'd be the next 'untouchable'.

Betts fetched a young big leaguer and a top prospect. Lindor doesn't have Betts' value but we're also not attaching Price's contract either. I think the deal I posted earlier is really fair.... Jansen, Groshans and a younger prospect.

FWIW, I'm surprised by the lack of interest in Danny Jansen by some posters on here (not directing this at anyone in particular). The wRC+ of Indians catchers this year was 27. Let that sink in for a minute..... I went back 20 seasons and that's the lowest wRC+ output I've seen from the Catcher position for a team in a single season. For comparison, most teams at the bottom of wRC+ at Catcher are in the 50-60's range. As much as I love Perez's defense, and I know the Indians value defense at that position, his offensive ineptitude was a level we haven't seen before in history and Hedges' metrics aren't much better. Jansen had a wRC+ of 89 this year and has posted fairly elite defensive metrics. He's not a world beater by any means at this dish but he's only 25, on a pre-arb contract and I think he's closer to average offensively than the two guys we have now while still providing the requisite defense.

Now, if we're including Cookie, I'd look at it as two separate deals. One of the top pitching prospects (Manoah, SWR or Kloffenstein) is a must. Teoscar has now had 1 1/2 elite seasons so the thought seems to be that his breakout is for real. Grichuk is signed long-term. So that basically leaves Gurriel Jr. and their untouchables. Gurriel's inclusion feels like it's too much but we might've gone light with Jansen's inclusion for Lindor so I think this framework might work.
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it seems interest from the blue jays side is contingent on lindor signing an extension - can deals still be made with a 48 hour window for the player to sign? or else the deal doesnt happen? do we know for sure that frankie is committed to testing free agency?
 
Urban said:
Think it's important to point of Davis had nearly 200 less plate appearances than Lindor in 2019 and Davis's OPS was only .760 this year.



Just looking at the trade you proposed of Davis-Nimmo-Rosario, here is how I see that trade ending:

-Davis potentially being traded in 2 years because he gets too expensive and the Indians don't want to pay him
-Nimmo being non-tendered after the 2021 season because his salary is too high for a guy who missed half of the season again. Or traded so the Indians can re-coup some value for a soon to be free agent making $6m+ in 2022
-Rosario is non-tendered or traded for scraps in 2 years because his salary doesn't match his production and he lost his starting job to an Arias, Rocchio, etc.

I'd rather swing for the fences and potentially get a great prospect who the Indians can control for 6+ years and build around vs. some good players who aren't necessarily long term solutions.

Listen, I don't think it's necessarily a bad trade if the goal is to pick up right where the Indians left off. I'm a big fan of Nimmo when he's healthy. This just does not seem like the trade the Indians will make since cheap team control is so important to the way this organization runs.
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I'm not a huge fan of Rosario - only included him because the Indians reportedly had interest last winter in Lindor negotiations - I'd rather do Davis+Nimmo+prospects.

Even if this isn't the trade to make, you're going to need at least some immediate help if you're serious about winning, and it doesn't sound like it'll happen through free agency aside from minor league deals. This is what we're staring at right now - Roberto Perez at catcher, Josh Naylor at 1B or corner OF, Jose at 3B, and Reyes at DH. That's it.

I'm high on Nolan Jones and hope he fills a role, but beyond that I'm not excited about the internal options that would be ready in 2021.

Jake Bauers, Daniel Johnson, Bobby Bradley, Yu Chang, Mike Freeman, Delino DeShields Jr, Jordan Luplow, Oscar Mercado, Bradley Zimmer, Tyler Naquin...plenty of options, but how many good ones? Only Naquin has proven capable of being an every day player when healthy, and he might get non-tendered. Luplow is a platoon player, Bradley/Bauers look like AAAA players, Freeman is a utility guy. I like Daniel Johnson and would be OK with him getting a shot. Yu Chang too, although the Indians don't seem to think highly of him IMO.

That's a lot to say that the Mets deal isn't perfect, but if you explore the landscape and all you get are offers of players that are several years away, I'm not sure you can make that deal and still say you're trying to win. Of course I'd prefer Dylan Carlson, Jo Adell, Alec Bohm, and other young, cheap, controllable but ML-ready talent. I'm just not sure guys like that will be available.
 
Steve_424 said:
I'm not a huge fan of Rosario - only included him because the Indians reportedly had interest last winter in Lindor negotiations - I'd rather do Davis+Nimmo+prospects.

Even if this isn't the trade to make, you're going to need at least some immediate help if you're serious about winning, and it doesn't sound like it'll happen through free agency aside from minor league deals. This is what we're staring at right now - Roberto Perez at catcher, Josh Naylor at 1B or corner OF, Jose at 3B, and Reyes at DH. That's it.

I'm high on Nolan Jones and hope he fills a role, but beyond that I'm not excited about the internal options that would be ready in 2021.

Jake Bauers, Daniel Johnson, Bobby Bradley, Yu Chang, Mike Freeman, Delino DeShields Jr, Jordan Luplow, Oscar Mercado, Bradley Zimmer, Tyler Naquin...plenty of options, but how many good ones? Only Naquin has proven capable of being an every day player when healthy, and he might get non-tendered. Luplow is a platoon player, Bradley/Bauers look like AAAA players, Freeman is a utility guy. I like Daniel Johnson and would be OK with him getting a shot. Yu Chang too, although the Indians don't seem to think highly of him IMO.

That's a lot to say that the Mets deal isn't perfect, but if you explore the landscape and all you get are offers of players that are several years away, I'm not sure you can make that deal and still say you're trying to win. Of course I'd prefer Dylan Carlson, Jo Adell, Alec Bohm, and other young, cheap, controllable but ML-ready talent. I'm just not sure guys like that will be available.
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What exactly has Naquin proved? That he cannot hit high fastballs? That he cannot avoid collisions with outfield walls?
 
DCTribefan said:
What exactly has Naquin proved? That he cannot hit high fastballs? That he cannot avoid collisions with outfield walls?
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His career OPS of .766 is similar production to what Cesar Hernandez gave us in 2020 (.763 OPS).

With that said he is inconsistent, can't stay on the field, and may get non-tendered - which only drives my primary point home even further IMO. This team can't let Lindor/Santana/Hernandez and maybe Naquin walk and expect to fill the gaps internally. They just can't unless they're going to rebuild, which makes no sense either.
 
Steve_424 said:
His career OPS of .766 is similar production to what Cesar Hernandez gave us in 2020 (.763 OPS).

With that said he is inconsistent, can't stay on the field, and may get non-tendered - which only drives my primary point home even further IMO. This team can't let Lindor/Santana/Hernandez and maybe Naquin walk and expect to fill the gaps internally. They just can't unless they're going to rebuild, which makes no sense either.
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Take away Naquin’s rookie season in 2016 and what is his average OPS? I’ll save you from crunching the numbers. It’s .648 OPS. Hardly a building block and not even a decent transition piece,IMO.
 
Urban said:
Think it's important to point of Davis had nearly 200 less plate appearances than Lindor in 2019 and Davis's OPS was only .760 this year.



Just looking at the trade you proposed of Davis-Nimmo-Rosario, here is how I see that trade ending:

-Davis potentially being traded in 2 years because he gets too expensive and the Indians don't want to pay him
-Nimmo being non-tendered after the 2021 season because his salary is too high for a guy who missed half of the season again. Or traded so the Indians can re-coup some value for a soon to be free agent making $6m+ in 2022
-Rosario is non-tendered or traded for scraps in 2 years because his salary doesn't match his production and he lost his starting job to an Arias, Rocchio, etc.

I'd rather swing for the fences and potentially get a great prospect who the Indians can control for 6+ years and build around vs. some good players who aren't necessarily long term solutions.

Listen, I don't think it's necessarily a bad trade if the goal is to pick up right where the Indians left off. I'm a big fan of Nimmo when he's healthy. This just does not seem like the trade the Indians will make since cheap team control is so important to the way this organization runs.
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To me one veteran player like a Nimmo mixed with 2-3 prospects is likely the deal that will go down for Lindor. Now which team makes the deal, I am not sure, but I cannot see the Indians taking anything less.
 
DCTribefan said:
Take away Naquin’s rookie season in 2016 and what is his average OPS? I’ll save you from crunching the numbers. It’s .648 OPS. Hardly a building block and not even a decent transition piece,IMO.
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Did you look at his 19 season before he messed up his knee?

.288/.325/.467

Not sure how that production is bad.

Last season he was coming off of a torn ACL and he also fouled a ball off his foot which did some damage. So no spring training, and recovering from injury. He will get one more shot to prove that 19 was what he could do. His issue has always been he doesnt take walks and in 19 he was hitting the high fastball which in 20 he couldn't. I guess missing that much time and no spring training doesn't matter?
 
Steve_424 said:
JD Davis certainly won't win any Gold Gloves, but his bat is worth the trade-off. Again - we're talking about a guy who has had a higher OPS than Lindor the past two seasons. You have the pitching and possibly bullpen to win now, why target only super young players?
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Honestly? Because Davis and Nimmo considerably hurt our "win now" pitching staff with their defense.

Nimmo: Runs Prevented: -3 / Outs Above Average: -4 / DRS: -5 / UZR: -4.1 / UZR150: -19.2
JD Davis*: Runs Prevented: -6 / Outs Above Average: -7 / DRS: -11 / UZR: -4.7 / UZR150: -13.9
*2019 statistics since he only played 22 innings in the OF in 2020

I just think it runs counterintuitive to the Indians core values in pitching if they don't surround them with adequate or better defenders. Just my opinion.....

I can live with Nimmo in RF since Mercado is well above average in CF (DeShields is elite defensively minus the 2020 season for whatever reason) and Naylor was a totally neutral defender in LF in 2020 after being well below average in 2019. But to go with two well below average defensive OF and a neutral guy is a no-go for me....
 
DCTribefan said:
Take away Naquin’s rookie season in 2016 and what is his average OPS? I’ll save you from crunching the numbers. It’s .648 OPS. Hardly a building block and not even a decent transition piece,IMO.
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Take away this season and the overall numbers go up...you can do whatever you want to make the numbers fit your argument. And again, my primary argument is that he's been arguably your best OF and you might non-tender him because even that isn't very good. It says more about the current state of the Indians lineup than it does Naquin.

EdMonix11 said:
Honestly? Because Davis and Nimmo considerably hurt our "win now" pitching staff with their defense.

Nimmo: Runs Prevented: -3 / Outs Above Average: -4 / DRS: -5 / UZR: -4.1 / UZR150: -19.2
JD Davis*: Runs Prevented: -6 / Outs Above Average: -7 / DRS: -11 / UZR: -4.7 / UZR150: -13.9
*2019 statistics since he only played 22 innings in the OF in 2020

I just think it runs counterintuitive to the Indians core values in pitching if they don't surround them with adequate or better defenders. Just my opinion.....

I can live with Nimmo in RF since Mercado is well above average in CF (DeShields is elite defensively minus the 2020 season for whatever reason) and Naylor was a totally neutral defender in LF in 2020 after being well below average in 2019. But to go with two well below average defensive OF and a neutral guy is a no-go for me....
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DeShields really hurt the Indians with his lack of arm strength IMO. Runners tagging and/or scoring on base hits that they just shouldn't have been.

I would prefer better defenders and see the Rays as an example of what great defense can do, but if you're going to have a payroll like the Indians are expected to you're probably going to have warts in places.
 
The Indians are likely going to demand Ronny Mauricio in any potential Mets deal for the proper amount of value to line up on their end. As already mentioned here, the Indians will be hard pressed to take on any player currently in arbitration as a secondary piece, let alone only players in arbitration for Lindor.
 
DCTribefan said:
Lindor trade idea with Cardinals per fan sided.com

https://fansided.com/2020/10/26/cardinals-indians-trade-francisco-lindor-makes-sense/
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DeJong is a good player.. incrementally better than who the Tribe has.. His inclusioni n the deal makes sense especially considering that the Cardinals like and probably will keep Wong.... and no, no substituting Wong here..

I like Carlson.. a lot.. his minor league numbers and current roster status is exactly what the indians should look for.. He'd be a healthier/better (defensively & offensively) version of Verdugo in Boston..

Not much of a fan of Rondon.. Junior Fernandez.. I like a lot more.. Jordan Walker is an incredible kid... and I liked him in his draft class... Elehuris Montero is also a special kind of hitter.. Both of the hitters are 3B's, facilitating a move of Nolan Jones to 1B or OF, where he is currently performing in Instructs in Goodyear..

In a round about way.. after deJong and Carlson, I'd want two guys.. no one.. Two of Rondon, Fernandez, Walker and Montero.. whoever the Tribe likes more.. If a guy like Oviedo or Allen or Moss is needed for a four for two.. so be it..

Decent trade.. the devil on this one would be in the details..
 
Steve_424 said:
Take away this season and the overall numbers go up...you can do whatever you want to make the numbers fit your argument. And again, my primary argument is that he's been arguably your best OF and you might non-tender him because even that isn't very good. It says more about the current state of the Indians lineup than it does Naquin.



DeShields really hurt the Indians with his lack of arm strength IMO. Runners tagging and/or scoring on base hits that they just shouldn't have been.

I would prefer better defenders and see the Rays as an example of what great defense can do, but if you're going to have a payroll like the Indians are expected to you're probably going to have warts in places.
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Yeah but it makes more sense to discount Naquin first year than this year because he struggled so much after the scouting report went around on him.
 
Mets off-season in limbo until mayor signs off on Citifield lease agreement to new owner Cohen, per NY Daily News.

“The worst-case scenario is if this drags on long enough, the Mets miss out on all major free agents, miss out on potential trades and they go into next season effectively in the same place they are this season,” said a person familiar with the situation. “And that would really be not good. If that happens, they’re effectively crippled for next season.”

NY Daily News - We are currently unavailable in your region

www.nydailynews.com www.nydailynews.com
 
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