and koby mentioned in the season ender that love needs to put himself into game shape this summer. that all of his problems were him not being in game shape. i think that is the most public admonishment of love in the past couple of years.
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Koby Altman nailed, then failed to take breathalyzer…
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Steve_424
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Doesn't mean he has to play.
1) We have no idea if KPJ apologized. We only know Love did because the team pushed the "He quit on his team again but CLEVELAND TIL I DIE!" narrative.
2) This wasn't one incident by Love. There have been several public (and on court) and several rumored behind the scenes.
It's why evaluating Koby is impossible. Any good move he gets praise, any bad move was "Dan's move"
Ohioplayer00
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Especially “smurf size” combo guards. The three moves Koby messed up on was the Windler pick (I still say he’ll never be more than the 9th or 10th best man on a roster), the Belien hire and the drafting of two smurf combo guards in back to back years. The KPJ move was a low risk/high reward move that I still back (even though it didn’t work out/kid has talent and it’s rare you’re able to get that kind of talent at the end of the first round), the Drummond trade I’m good with but I didn’t like the way we handled getting rid of him and getting nothing in return. Koby’s job is on the line with this year’s draft (he has to hit a home run) and next season (the Cavs must be in contention for a playoff spot (not a play in spot but an actual spot)
Fair point, but again, not everyone can be the Lakers and have 5 playoff misses in franchise history before recently, i.e. be so good at FA to basically never need to build from their own lotto picks.
Cavatt
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Who turned their team around faster than 3 years after losing a top 5 guy for nothing? Oh nobody? Ok.
3 years is nothing. Sacramento has been rebuilding for over a decade.
Memphis is pretty close I guess, but they have been luckier than us and drafted better late and had more picks than we did because they were able to trade their stars instead of just losing them.
WorldFreeB
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Well I think Koby can rectify one of the errors by trading Garland or Sexton for a really good package.
I think a lot of that depends on who gets drafted. Drafting Green or Suggs would make that an easier decision.
I think the idea at the beginning was to draft best player available and try to either make it work or deal for pieces
that fit better. So much of the roster construction issues at this point depend on where they are drafting.
Top 5 pick and the cavs are golden....picking 6 or 7 would be a disaster.
LeeBuckeye
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In a player empowerment era, is building and maintaining a culture even possible? Guys are motivated by (1) $$ (2) Roles (3) Winning. The wrong combination of vets and young guys regarding those three things + an objective misalignment between FO and coaches has been the teams downfall.
Either way Koby's vision reminds me of Michael Vick's field vison in Madden '06, just an eye for drafting and nothing else.
foucault87
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You can. Miami did it. SAS still has it. Even GSW has a recently built one. It can be done but requires more people skills than I or Koby have.
It also requires very precise drafting and talent acquisition with a focus on high character guys. We've done some of that (sexland, okoro, nance). Once you've got the cultural pieces in place, you can try to get the more volatile types surrounded by the right kinda people. Historical examples include SJax with SA, MWP in LAL, and even Chriss in GS.
Imo Koby swung too early with that for players like KPJ and maybe Drummond. Problem is Love was already here and will continue to be...and they seem to view him as a core veteran leader which is asinine. Let LNJ do that.
Steve_424
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The way Kevin Love is handled says everything about our culture. Love could literally go out on the court, dunk it in the other teams basket, and hit Koby with a "suck it" crotch chop and the next day we'd have "We believe in Kevin and handled it internally"
And for what? He's not an elite player anymore. His behavior is not what you want young players to be around. He has no trade value. And he doesn't fit the Cavs rebuild timeline under even the rosiest of scenarios.
So why do we keep him around, keep starting him, keep protecting him publicly?
So Dan and Koby (mostly Dan) can save face on that stupid contract extension.
That's a long way of me saying yes, I do believe you can, but you have to have the right people in place that can do more than talent evaluation. You can't do it when you're propping up a washed former all-star while simultaneously taking a much harder line with players who can actually help you now and long-term.
inliner311
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Some teams are smart about the player empowerment and leaning in to it. It's things they say or do that will get players on their side and make it where the team is on the players side.
Examples, when a GM like Griff goes out and blames officiating for Zions finger injury. He perfectly knows he is going to be fine for it but that 50k, which the team probably gives back to him, is well worth it for their relationship with Zion. There is an intangible value to a teams culture knowing your GM has your back.
Another example would be when a player does something bad but the team doesn't punish the player. They let the league do it and maybe even egg on the league to do it. Even go out and say they don't agree with the fine or suspension.
They create an us vs them mentality. The team and organization is a united front for their players.
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What are you talking about quit on the team? He was mad at the ref and smacked the ball and it accident it went in bounds. Let’s not rewrite history here. Only guy I remember quitting was LBJ in 2010.
Steve_424
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“Who wouldn’t want to play with Dame Lillard, first of all,” Love said on “Posted Up.” “Dame, he’s special. He’s amazing. I claim Portland when they ask me where I’m from...Whether it be at the end of my career, whether it be in six months, or whatever it may be, if I was wearing a Portland jersey, that’s special. That’s playing at home.”
You're right, Kev is all in with the Cavs!
Listen, I'm a K Love fan. I will always appreciate he and every member of that 2016 team. But to suggest he hasn't quit on this team is incredible to me. You can say LeBron quit in 2010 but the man played in all but 6 regular season games and averaged 29/9/7 in 41 minutes per game in the postseason.
I guess it's easier to hate on the guy who already left than the guy who is doing everything in his power to leave.
Let's see...Cleveland vs Miami/Bay/San Antonio now (maybe not in the past when it was smaller.) Hmm, there's a difference or two, but I can't quite put a finger on what it is.
(To put it another way, it's one the Browns only had to deal with when they were extremely bad, not just because of basically immutable league/salary & team structure differences but also because any NFL player can spend February or usually January in FL/CA if he wants.)
Klove does deserve the criticism he's getting (even if IMHO the contract wasn't nearly as bad as people are making it, given circumstances,) but I don't see that quote as that bad.
He knows the talk about his time here ending soon, I'm sure; and I doubt that many people questioned KD's commitment to GS when he said that he'd love to move back to Seattle if they got a new team.
(Of course, KD did have one eye on the exits in GS pretty quickly, but for completely different reasons...)
Steve_424
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The quote in a vacuum I could see as harmless, but when adding the context of his tantrum on the court, reported shouting matches with Koby, undercutting coaches and teammates through the media, sitting out so many games, etc it looks much worse to me.