2021 Series #20 | Mariners @ Indians | June 11-13, 2021

jup said:

PS - give credit where credit is do. Sticky buddy for Biebs on the Indians was Clevinger not Bauer. Bauer never touched the stuff until after he left Cleveland. But Biebs and Clev were all "stuck" together I guess one could say.

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Yeah right. The ridiculous spin rates belonged to Bauer who also happens to be the less physically gifted individual of the 3. Sorry, I typically appreciate what you post jup, but I'm calling bullshit on this one. I'm not saying Clevinger and Bieber weren't using the sticky. I'm saying if they were/are then so was Bauer. He's no fucking saint and his interest is spin rates before most others doesn't sit well with your accusations.

TxBuckeye said:

I'm looking at the fking #'s. What other hard evidence would you like. And yes, there is a long way to go but to date we got what we got.

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I believe the better phrasing when someone was asking you would have been:
Can you share the site where you are seeing the numbers at? I would like to see the data myself & I suspect others would like to see the data on Cesar & other players. Thanks.

TxBuckeye said:

I'm looking at the fking #'s. What other hard evidence would you like. And yes, there is a long way to go but to date we got what we got.

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You're looking at the results of this season which is a small fucking sample. You have presented no evidence that he has changed his launch angle or if there was even ever a conversation suggesting that would be a good idea.

CDAV45 said:

Yeah right. The ridiculous spin rates belonged to Bauer who also happens to be the less physically gifted individual of the 3. Sorry, I typically appreciate what you post jup, but I'm calling bullshit on this one. I'm not saying Clevinger and Bieber weren't using the sticky. I'm saying if they were/are then so was Bauer. He's no fucking saint and his interest is spin rates before most others doesn't sit well with your accusations.

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I think it is somewhat possible we are about to see how hardcore the cheating in baseball has gotten since the golden days of the juice. In a different way of course...

I saw this on MLBTradeRumors.... If true, might scare a few people:

JUNE 13: Umpires will check starting pitchers at least twice per game and will examine relievers at least once during each contest, reports Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic. A position player will only be checked if umpires believe him to be altering the ball on his pitcher’s behalf. If the umpire finds illicit substances on the pitcher, his equipment will be confiscated and he will be ejected from the game, per Rosenthal.

CDAV45 said:

You're looking at the results of this season which is a small fucking sample. You have presented no evidence that he has changed his launch angle or if there was even ever a conversation suggesting that would be a good idea.

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Again, no I haven't. If you can't understand a little sarcasm (or frustration) in the way today's game is played sorry. The #'s are the #'s and I sure as shit am not making those up.

MadThinker88 said:

I believe the better phrasing when someone was asking you would have been:
Can you share the site where you are seeing the numbers at? I would like to see the data myself & I suspect others would like to see the data on Cesar & other players. Thanks.

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I would have thought with all the stat freaks on here everybody would be able to readily find these #'s but here you go

​

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Thank you Tx
I appreciate you sharing (for myself & others)..

MadThinker88 said:

Thank you Tx
I appreciate you sharing (for myself & others)..

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No worries. But I know all these guys who love to quote all their new age stats know damn well where to find this info.

TxBuckeye said:

Again, no I haven't. If you can't understand a little sarcasm (or frustration) in the way today's game is played sorry. The #'s are the #'s and I sure as shit am not making those up.

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You're missing my point and those stats don't necessarily support your accusation. Is his fly ball percentage up due to a change in "launch angle" or the way he's being pitched? Is his LD% of 2020 elevated because it's a small sample? Stating that his fly ball percentage is elevated because he has changed his "launch angle" is speculation at best.

For the record. If I'm going to make an accusation then it's damn well my responsibility to provide the evidence to support it, not for others to disprove it.

CDAV45 said:

You're missing my point and those stats don't necessarily support your accusation. Is his fly ball percentage up due to a change in "launch angle" or the way he's being pitched? Is his LD% of 2020 elevated because it's a small sample? Stating that his fly ball percentage is elevated because he has changed his "launch angle" is speculation at best.

For the record. If I'm going to make an accusation then it's damn well my responsibility to provide the evidence to support it, not for others to disprove it.

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Again, get a sarcasm meter chief. I don't fking know if his launch angle changed. I don't know if anybody discussed it with him. I don't know if he decided to consciously or subconsciously make these changes. All I know is he isn't hitting like he did last year. What I do know is the entire fking world is obsessed with hitting home runs and damn the strike outs. Nobody was accusing anybody of anything. I just made a flippant statement based off of today's baseball world and somehow that offended you. I don't know if he's being pitched differently or maybe he's using a lighter bat or the color of his socks have changed. His LD% is down, his FB rate is up and his production sucks. You think Cesar is having a fabulous year. Good for you. I don't.

Hernandez' launch angle is 12.6 degrees in 181 batted balls this season. Last year with 178 batted balls his launch angle was 5.6 degrees. His career average is 7.8.

However, his expected batting average is .262 against an actual average of .217 so he's been unlucky. His BABIP is .240 against .364 last year. His career average is .332 so he was a little lucky last year. But this season when you'd expect a BABIP in the vicinity of his career .332 average he's over 90 points lower despite the fact that his hard hit percentage is the highest of his career.

It's crazy - his hard hit percentage has never been higher and his BABIP has never been lower. The lowest it's been in his career is .313 but it's .240 now. Some of that may be due to the increased shifting.

Edit: Part of the problem is he's hitting to center field 42.5% of the time - the highest of his career. His fly ball percentage is easily the highest of his career. Combine those and you get a lot of fly balls to the deepest part of the park. So the good hard hit percentage isn't helping him if he's putting the ball in the air to the deepest part of the park. Franmil can hit home runs to center; Cesar has warning track power.

Wham with the Right Hand said:

César Hernández - Stats - Batting | FanGraphs Baseball

César Hernández career batting statistics for Major League, Minor League, and postseason baseball

www.fangraphs.com

Hernandez' launch angle is 12.6 degrees in 181 batted balls this season. Last year with 178 batted balls his launch angle was 5.6 degrees. His career average is 7.8.

However, his expected batting average is .262 against an actual average of .217 so he's been unlucky. His BABIP is .240 against .364 last year. His career average is .332 so he was a little lucky last year. But this season when you'd expect a BABIP in the vicinity of his career .332 average he's over 90 points lower despite the fact that his hard hit percentage is the highest of his career.

It's crazy - his hard hit percentage has never been higher and his BABIP has never been lower. The lowest it's been in his career is .313 but it's .240 now. Some of that may be due to the increased shifting.

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But has his launch angle increased because he changed his swing or because of how he is being pitched? And if it is because he changed his swing was this organizationally approved or did Cesar do it on his own? (AND YES I AM BEING A SMARTASS)

TxBuckeye said:

Again, get a sarcasm meter chief. I don't fking know if his launch angle changed. I don't know if anybody discussed it with him. I don't know if he decided to consciously or subconsciously make these changes. All I know is he isn't hitting like he did last year. What I do know is the entire fking world is obsessed with hitting home runs and damn the strike outs. Nobody was accusing anybody of anything. I just made a flippant statement based off of today's baseball world and somehow that offended you. I don't know if he's being pitched differently or maybe he's using a lighter bat or the color of his socks have changed. His LD% is down, his FB rate is up and his production sucks. You think Cesar is having a fabulous year. Good for you. I don't.

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My apologies. I took "Launch angle baby!!!! His fly ball rate has doubled from last year. I sure miss the days when guys actually learned how to hit rather than prepare themselves for slow pitch softball after their retirement." as a statement suggesting that he deliberately changed his launch angle. There's always reasons behind changes. All I'm doing is stating that we shouldn't pigeon hole it to "launch angle" because I doubt that he's deliberately tried to become a HR hitter and play softball after he retires. Doesn't seem to be his M.O., but hey, what do I know.

some days you dont need to know the score to know we lost

CDAV45 said:

Yeah right. The ridiculous spin rates belonged to Bauer who also happens to be the less physically gifted individual of the 3. Sorry, I typically appreciate what you post jup, but I'm calling bullshit on this one. I'm not saying Clevinger and Bieber weren't using the sticky. I'm saying if they were/are then so was Bauer. He's no fucking saint and his interest is spin rates before most others doesn't sit well with your accusations.

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No doubt Bauer has the highest spin rates there are. No doubt he decided to use the best stuff if he was going to use.

But to say he used in Cleveland is JUST BULLSHIT to quote you @CDAV45. Just go look at his spin rates and it is obvious. They jumped in the first inning of a TX game that he used the stuff on purpose and told the press to prove his point. Spin rates went right back down and stayed there until Sept of '19, long after he was traded.

Inside the clubhouse Bauer would always be teasing Clev and Biebs about it. But believe what you may CDAV, no sweat off my back. However, I posted shit (not BS) about Clev and his spin rates way back in '17 on IBI. Maybe you never saw it on the "spin stuff" thread, but it was obvious since he first came up that he used sticky stuff. And he is just lucky he is injured right now because he doesn't have to deal with it.