The 2021 Cleveland Baseball Organization

jup said:

Its chicken shit.

But that is corporate America today. More worried about virtue signaling than any kind of traditions. And the 100 years of an American icon that the Indians franchise has been should be able to be celebrated for what it has been.

Maybe the moniker isn't a fit in todays society, but that does not diminish or change the past 100 years. And the Indians should have the balls to stand up and honor their own history while acknowledging that times have changed. The Indian franchise has been more than just a name.

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B Mac said:

Tough position. I'm sure the owners, front office, marketing, management, etc.. want to, if for no other reason than to generate some more ticket sales. BUT is the expense of any additional negative headlines really worth a few extra thousand in ticket sales?

Better to let the name slip quietly into the night and move on to the next era.

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AZ_ said:

Fans should stop making this about the false premise that they’re not “honoring” the last 100 years.

The Indians franchise has been, and will continue to be more than a name.


The overly-emotional attachment to a moniker seems like a bit much, in our society. You honor the players and the organizations history as a charter American League member, not the insensitive, derivative logo that characterizes Native American people as savages.

Not a hard concept, IMO. Harder for others, it seems, but this whole “not honoring the history” is just completely false.

This team does little else beyond relive the glory days.

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AZ_ said:

Fans should stop making this about the false premise that they’re not “honoring” the last 100 years.

The Indians franchise has been, and will continue to be more than a name.


The overly-emotional attachment to a moniker seems like a bit much, in our society. You honor the players and the organizations history as a charter American League member, not the insensitive, derivative logo that characterizes Native American people as savages.

Not a hard concept, IMO. Harder for others, it seems, but this whole “not honoring the history” is just completely false.

This team does little else beyond relive the glory days.

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CDAV45 said:

You're not "honoring the history" if you're claiming the history is offensive. How are you going to revisit moments of the past? Will they be prefaced by "while the name was offensive and derogatory........". What a crock! Just call it what it is and cut the BS. Nobody here is that hateful, inconsiderate, or stupid. I know, an asterisk can be put next to any Cleveland Indians highlights just like Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire's homeruns.

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CDAV45 said:

The only "overly-emotional attachment to a moniker" is by the folks on your side. Nobody supported the name "Indians" because they viewed it as racist or demeaning in any fashion. Quite the opposite in fact, but moving on............

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CDAV45 said:

Can't help but wonder if there will come a point in time when the white faced guardians of traffic will be offensive? After all, the design was voted on and approved in 1927. Was the city evenly represented then? That's rhetorical and anyone can find a reason to be offended. Probably the reason why you cannot make everyone happy.

I just want a MLB team to root for. You can change the name every year if it makes you happy.

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AZ_ said:

Bypassing your desperate, boring takes about my "communist" avatar and wokeness, which were both spoken from a place of petty personal animus....



You're trying way too hard to make this a personal attack on yourself and your beliefs.

Is someone calling "the history" of the organization offensive? ----- No.

Is anyone asking for any change to the history whatsoever, or any such *asterik? ----- No.

Is someone calling you personally hateful, inconsiderate or stupid? ----- No, but you're welcome to prove otherwise by giving us more takes on communism and "woke."


This might be hard for you to accept, but this isn't about you...

At all.




Are you being accused of supporting "Indians" because you're a racist and demeaning? ----- No.

Once again, making it about you. I'm sensing a theme here.

Nevertheless, moving on.



Ah yes, lets invoke the "slippery slope" fallacy argument to pre-emptively claim that fans like you will once again be the victim again in the future.

Please, please, please....

Leave your shitty political takes the fuck off this board.

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Lee said:

NM_ with the mike drop.

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AZ_ said:

Bypassing your desperate, boring takes about my "communist" avatar and wokeness, which were both spoken from a place of petty personal animus....



You're trying way too hard to make this a personal attack on yourself and your beliefs.

Is someone calling "the history" of the organization offensive? ----- No.

Is anyone asking for any change to the history whatsoever, or any such *asterik? ----- No.

Is someone calling you personally hateful, inconsiderate or stupid? ----- No, but you're welcome to prove otherwise by giving us more takes on communism and "woke."


This might be hard for you to accept, but this isn't about you...

At all.




Are you being accused of supporting "Indians" because you're a racist and demeaning? ----- No.

Once again, making it about you. I'm sensing a theme here.

Nevertheless, moving on.



Ah yes, lets invoke the "slippery slope" fallacy argument to pre-emptively claim that fans like you will once again be the victim again in the future.

Please, please, please....

Leave your shitty political takes the fuck off this board.

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CDAV45 said:

Wrong again. Reread the second sentence again to get a better understanding. I will be speaking only for myself, thus the references to "me". Suggesting that I'm making this personal is simply not accurate at all. I do admire how you can infer "petty personal animus" while inferring petty personal animus. That's ironically funny. I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next fella.

Don't like the slippery slope fallacy? Well that's great, because I don't either, but who gets to choose where it stops. I also don't like your fucked up political take on this subject either, but you don't seem to mind putting it out there for all to see. "Fans like you will once again be the victim again in the future"? I wasn't a victim, will not be a victim, and victimized nobody. That's the point that you just can't accept as you continually regurgitate your bullshit. The name change means little to me. The silly reasoning is what ruffles a few feathers. I'd have more respect for folks that just said I want the name changed because I don't like it instead of accusing others of using it as a derogatory symbol of hate.

I'm being commanded to leave my "shitty political takes the fuck off this board" by a poster with the political avatar. Even you should see the irony in that. I don't wish to continue to cluster this thread with this back and forth. I doubt either of us has made any progress in finding some common ground so you can have the last word on the matter. I'll even give it a thumbs up.

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sportscoach said:

@AZ_ @CDAV45

You both are at different ends of the spectrum of this debate and we all need to just let it go...

One side sees the political wrongness while the other side sees the friendly symbol that has overcome the original bad intent and became a friend in a sense....

The world is changing and I think even if the new name isn't exactly looking like the old friend, it's still the same old friend just adapted to the new era. One of you wear your Wahoo hat and one of you wear your flying G hat, and move on...

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