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Early 22 GM Thread! (Trade Ideas here)

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Criznit said:
I don't think anyone is fantasizing Gallo's acquisition, merely pointing out he might be in a precarious position entering the off-season/2022 season. The Yanks may like some of our prospects, its worth looking at before deciding it will cost too much. Yanks could use some help at SS, or maybe Gio hangs, IDK.

As of now and this may certainly change, his current contract is 10-12 million in arby and a QO consideration. Does he fit our needs? Kinda.... Are there better or more complete options? Certainly..
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better / cheaper... yes..
more complete... yes..

Gallo just doesn't seem to be a Cleveland kinda guy..

unless ten other things happen making Gallo the "last piece to the puzzle" a la EE.. unlikely signing..

We'll see..
 
The proposed (BTV # 59066) that has five Jays for two Guards (Jram & Clase) has 3B and, especially, C covered well going into the 2022/23 season. There is immediate help at both the OF and SP spots.. The Guards have no one that can step in for Clases.. Ultimately, this is the kind of deal that never sees the light of day..

There are parts of this deal that are extremely interesting, though..
 
Gson said:
better / cheaper... yes..
more complete... yes..

Gallo just doesn't seem to be a Cleveland kinda guy..

unless ten other things happen making Gallo the "last piece to the puzzle" a la EE.. unlikely signing..

We'll see..
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Don't know about this, he certainly lands somewhere in the Napoli/Swisher/Giambi range... I am not advocating it, but considering a 2022 lineup of

Straw
JRam
Gallo
Reyes
Rosario
...
...
...
...

Is a pretty good boom or bust to start a game IMO.
 
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Gson said:
I don't want an army (I'll take it.. but).. I want what's fair or close to fair, either way.. The Groshans/Moreno/Hernandez return is not fair.. Switch out Hernandez for Gurriel Jr and it's closer to fair...and solves three of the four priorities needed to put the Guardians on a path to a more complete competitive team for several years to come.. Looking at the remaining teams in the playoffs.. all four are more complete..(or, have the ability to cover the weaknesses of the club).. The Guardians cannot compete with the elite teams while having the worst outfield in the league.. not having a LHRP (Ky Bush).. and not having a mix of RHSP's and LHSP's in the starting rotation.

It's the cards (economic restrictions) we're dealt with that makes considering many of these "changes"...

BTW.. the question about 3B (in the event JRam is dealt).. Arias/Palacios/G-Rod/M-Tol/Bracho all qualify at that spot.. Yu Chang too.. It wouldn't require an additional deal to fill most of the void.. but.. as always.. being open to suggestion for our club is essential..

Thoughts?...
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Fair isn't how others value your possessions, it's measured by your own assigned value. Cleveland isn't shopping JRam and if a team wants him then it isn't going to be for "fair" market value. If that's the case then I'd like to drum up a package for Austin Riley.

I want nothing to do with giving up assets to acquire Gurriel Jr. because I think Naylor is the same type/caliber ball player.

I doubt that the Guardians will continue to field one of the worst offensive OF's in MLB. They know it's an issue and they've positioned themselves to address it.
 
Roughly 60% of the active roster had below league average contact rates. Roughly 30% were stumbling around in the bottom 10% of the league. You can’t rectify a problem by adding to it.

Gallo, Happ, Wisdom, Contreras, et al. will not improve the lineup. Different faces but more of the same.

If you’re complaining about Franmil’s inconsistency than you want no part of the above because inconsistency is the trademark of low contact hitters. They can’t be anything else unless they drag those rates up and that’s a long odds proposition.

The club needs solid hitters to produce more runs.
 
sportscoach said:
No, because we go backwards in 22 on paper... We trade an all-star 3B and a proven MLB MOR SP for Guirrel and a bunch of unproven players... We swapped a good 9+ WAR for 3 WAR and a million unknowns...

Guirrel and Adell I can deal with, but moving JRam and Plesac and only getting prospects (Adell to me is still one) plus one MLB proven back, we may as well trade Guirrel and Amed and plan for 23 not 22 since we lose our only legit 3 hole hitter...

Adams hasn't even proven he can hit in the minors, and he is Rule 5 Eligible, so I dont want him on paper at all, I'd rather just go Paris/Vera there since both guys have time before rule 5 and they are still very young. So Adams is a no for me...

William Contreras isn't as good of a prospect as Lavastida in all honesty. He doesn't improve hitting, defense etc. If anything he doesn't do anything well enough to stay in the bigs in my mind... I'd take him for cheap/throw in, but nothing more. I think he's gonna bust...

Langeliers I would take in a deal, but honestly I doubt Atlanta would part with him...

Groshans and Bachman on paper I am all for... Bush is borderline but the upside and whatnot is there, so I would definitely take him prospect wise...

Muller looks like Hentges in some ways, I think he flops as a starter. His walk ratio is way to high and that's not a normal target for the Indians at all. Normally they want high command guys...
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I have no interest in Guirriel because I view Naylor as having a similar skillset. Good bat to ball skills with moderate power. If I'm getting an OF'er from Toronto it has to be Hernandez or I'm moving on. That's the beauty of being in the driver's seat in any deal for JRam, because he's not going anywhere unless they are overwhelmed.

I agree that Lavastida looks as good or better than Contreras. Therefore he isn't a good target IMO. We don't need another C prospect, we need another C and preferably one that can hit and play good defense. I'll get to that in the next paragraph.

Adell would be a big gamble and I wouldn't give his peak value at this time. If I were the Angels, I wouldn't sell him at his low point either. If they Angels want to give me Adell and Stassi for Plesac I would consider it. Seriously consider it actually. For S&G's let's say that deal happened. That would pretty much leave LF to be addressed and they might feel that can be done internally. If not, then easier to address externally than RF. The Rule V might provide them with a possible solution.
 
PPark said:
Roughly 60% of the active roster had below league average contact rates. Roughly 30% were stumbling around in the bottom 10% of the league. You can’t rectify a problem by adding to it.

Gallo, Happ, Wisdom, Contreras, et al. will not improve the lineup. Different faces but more of the same.

If you’re complaining about Franmil’s inconsistency than you want no part of the above because inconsistency is the trademark of low contact hitters. They can’t be anything else unless they drag those rates up and that’s a long odds proposition.

The club needs solid hitters to produce more runs.
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Uhhhhh Joey Gallo produced a total of 4.6 WAR between Texas and NY. We didn't have anyone sniff that kind of production so your "solid hitter" assessment appears to be a little inaccurate. Wisdom produced 2.3 WAR in about half of a season's worth of AB(338). Again, we didn't have anyone close to being that productive. I don't quite know what to make of Happ. He's put up some pretty good numbers in the past, but was a bit underwhelming this season. His history suggests that he's better than he was this season, but I'm not paying top dollar for him. He would make this team better in its current standing, but I doubt he's the best available option.
 
Gson said:
The proposed (BTV # 59066) that has five Jays for two Guards (Jram & Clase) has 3B and, especially, C covered well going into the 2022/23 season. There is immediate help at both the OF and SP spots.. The Guards have no one that can step in for Clases.. Ultimately, this is the kind of deal that never sees the light of day..

There are parts of this deal that are extremely interesting, though..
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And there were other parts that did not make any sense. As a whole, Cleveland would lose more than they would gain.
 
Tribe RF'ers OPS'd .760 in '21. Gallo OPS'd .808. I assume he projects a bit better on offense (and certainly defense) than our misshapen borg would. He would likely be an incremental improvement, though at what cost? (Gallo was a disaster in pinstripes.)

The problem is: our weakest overall positions vs. league were catcher and 1B. (Catcher dead, dead last in "wins above average" according to Baseball Reference-- which may point to an organizational blind spot.)

The majority of our positions were just slightly below average, which puts us in a difficult spot. With the lone exception of 3B (which absolutely dominated the AL) there's little chance of significant improvement anywhere without the acquisition of an actual Star. All of that junk we trotted out to play the outfield? Not strong. Not Weak. Average. Can it be improved upon? Not easily.

Our pitching should bounce back next year and carry us toward contention, yes. But...

We're in a pickle with regard to position players, and it's gonna take a bunch of spending to fix that.
 
CDAV45 said:
Fair isn't how others value your possessions, it's measured by your own assigned value. Cleveland isn't shopping JRam and if a team wants him then it isn't going to be for "fair" market value. If that's the case then I'd like to drum up a package for Austin Riley.

I want nothing to do with giving up assets to acquire Gurriel Jr. because I think Naylor is the same type/caliber ball player.

I doubt that the Guardians will continue to field one of the worst offensive OF's in MLB. They know it's an issue and they've positioned themselves to address it.
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Fair market value is more than an "in the eye of the beholder" assessment..

Taking the tact that "...you can't buy me.. I'm not for sale.." as it relates to JRam.. or others.. will result in one inevitable result: ...we can all "hope" that there is an extension made.. but until it does.. the very realistic chance that he walks after his contract is up.. or, he becomes a "known" trade candidate on a short term rental.. which reduces the 'fair market value' returned is what we'll receive. A 'sooner rather than later' deal becomes important to the Guards.. if this comes to pass..

Disagree with Naylor/Gurriel type/caliber... glovework.. maybe.. very different hitters...

Being hopeful the FO solves all the problems (OF.. Catcher.. 1B... LHRP.. SP Depth) we agree on..just not sure what position that means..
 
All assessments come with bias...lol.

No lineup can afford 35% K rate from its 4-5-6 slots.

All WAR is not created equal. A players skill set has to fit the teams lineup.

NY may want to move on from Gallo, but...

There is that right field porch....and a $10 mil mistake doesn't even make a dent.
 
The idea still is not to get 'maximum' value in trade for every player. The idea is to win baseball games...and very few players help his team do that better than Jose. Extension/no extension doesn't change that fact.

Fans and media love to talk major trades involving major names, because it is exciting....until your team is 15 games out at the deadline, because its FO was focused on 2024 and beyond.
 
Gson said:
Fair market value is more than an "in the eye of the beholder" assessment..

Taking the tact that "...you can't buy me.. I'm not for sale.." as it relates to JRam.. or others.. will result in one inevitable result: ...we can all "hope" that there is an extension made.. but until it does.. the very realistic chance that he walks after his contract is up.. or, he becomes a "known" trade candidate on a short term rental.. which reduces the 'fair market value' returned is what we'll receive. A 'sooner rather than later' deal becomes important to the Guards.. if this comes to pass..

Disagree with Naylor/Gurriel type/caliber... glovework.. maybe.. very different hitters...

Being hopeful the FO solves all the problems (OF.. Catcher.. 1B... LHRP.. SP Depth) we agree on..just not sure what position that means..
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When you look at all the factors Gson, trading JRam for anything less than a windfall just doesn't make sense. New name. New era. New minority owner. Young, inexpensive rotation that is very good. A good young core. A farm system about to bust at the seems. New lease with millions towards renovations. They are looking to do something big in Cleveland and unless the return for JRam makes this team significantly and immediately better than keeping him it ain't gonna happen IMO. I'm all for dealing him for an overpay that again, improves this team immediately, but what are the chances of that?
 
CATS44 said:
All assessments come with bias...lol.

No lineup can afford 35% K rate from its 4-5-6 slots.

All WAR is not created equal. A players skill set has to fit the teams lineup.

NY may want to move on from Gallo, but...

There is that right field porch....and a $10 mil mistake doesn't even make a dent.
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What are the results of the other 65% AB? Striking out at a 20% rate and weakly grounding or flying out is no more productive CATS. WAR is WAR. It isn't perfect, but it measures a player's production. There are numerous ways to be productive.

NY may keep Gallo and he may produce another season near 5 WAR for $10M. I don't give a shit if he strikes out 35% of the time and neither do they or any other organization. This reminds me of that Jack Nicholson scene in A Few Good Men. Except Joey Gallo is saying "you win with my production and then question the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just say thank you and went on your way".
 
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